Friday, June 29, 2012

Obligatory health care rant

-Congratulations to the GOP for creating "individual mandate" health care reform, championing it for two decades, instituting it in Massachusetts, decrying it as soon as the black guy in the White House said he liked it, and then getting it all the way to the Supreme Court where their own guy upheld it.

-Speaking of Head Justice Roberts: Hey guys, I'm really conservative (really, I am), but this here Supreme Court ain't ideological! 

-In order to repeal ACA, the GOP will have to keep the House, win 60 seats in the Senate and take the White House in November. Good luck with that.

-Won't it be a gas watching which states opt in or out of the Medicaid expansion?

-Warren Olney had a great show on the SCOTUS ruling, with a terrific segment on the Stolen Valor Act ruling at the end of the show.

-Every single time Mitt Romney says the ACA is bad for America, he does not believe it himself. That inauthenticity smells bad now. Wonder how rank it'll be in four months.

-Now sit back and enjoy an all-American two-liter bottle of high fructose corn syrup-sweetened soda for 99¢. Smoke 'em if you got 'em, folks, and order up a bacon sundae. Your countrymen got your back when the diabetes sets in and the lung cancer blooms and your tubes get clogged up. From now on, we're all in this together.

*  *  *

61 comments:

Derek D. said...

We were already all in this together. That's why this piece of legislation only makes sense. Who really pays when a poor person goes to the emergency room? The taxpayer does in the end. Now we can just call a spade a spade. At least now that poor sickling has to pay something and be a participant.

Dan Bushman said...

I am as thrilled as I can be about the ruling, and as protective of individual's rights to make their own decisions as I can be.

However, as an observer to the world and a data collector by habit, I have been thinking through the study the follows this hypothesis:

The cost of both national and individual medical care is directly correlated with the amount of collective and individual ass fat.

I do beleive it needs to be both macro and micro study.

Sorry if the idea of how the data is gathered just ruined your next trip to Walmart. My bad.

Tony Rugare said...

I had all but given up on the Supreme Court. Glad to eat crow - it really isn't all that bad.

Joe said...

The President's race had nothing to do with objections. That is a cheap shot and you are better than that.

Now that the ACA is a tax bill, it does not need 60 votes -- it can be defeated through reconciliation -- remember that tool? Just a simple majority will "deem it passed".

Erin O'Brien said...

Welcome, Derek.

I didn't say his race did have anything to do with it, Joe. You did. That said, I'm all ears: why did the Righties--from Romney to the Heritage Foundation to Gingrich--turn tail on the individual mandate?

Joe said...

"...decrying it as soon as the black guy in the White House said he liked it"

Sure sounds like you are blaming it on race to me.

I don't know why they changed their mind. No true limited government conservative would be in favor of it.

Al The Retired Army Guy said...

Don't drink a lot of pop (usually, it's half sweet, half plain iced tea - sweet tea down here is more like syrup), don't smoke, but a bacon sundae? Why, why .... yes!

Al
TRAG

Erin O'Brien said...

I suspect the reason you don't know, Joe, is because it's pure nonsensical party-before-country politics.

But there is not doubt about this: in November, you're either going to vote for the current champion of "Obamneycare" or the architect of it.

At least Obama owns up to his health care reform, which is more than I can say for the presumptive GOP candidate and all the rest of them.

Erin O'Brien said...

Hi Al and Tony and Dan.

Bill said...

I was not aware of the fact that the Supreme Court is allowed to rewrite legislation to make it constitutional.

Anonymous said...

Angling for a Hi here...

I'll say it because I'm cheap. Come on down here to the CSA. BHO could find the cure for cancer and it would be opposed simply because he's a skinny black guy with a funny name.

"...decrying it as soon as the black guy in the White House said he liked it"

Sure sounds like you are blaming it on race to me.- Joe.

"I don't know why they changed their mind. No true limited government conservative would be in favor of it."-Joe

Sophistry plain and simple. Define the terms the way you see fit and then draw your conclusions accordingly.
I went to Free Republic yesterday after the decision just to watch conservative heads explode and the rhetoricians at the Lyceum would have been dazzled by the amount of erudite horseshit being offered up.

The sober, well-spoken gravy sucking pigs.

Hi Erin.

RJ

Erin O'Brien said...

Hey RJ, remember when school admins blocked the President's 2009 "Back to School" address? Remember that?

Surely examples such as that in no way support the assertion that the right isn't out to ruin Obama. Surely not!

Oh yeah. Hi Bill.

Anonymous said...

Hi Erin-

It's hot down here in the Confederacy. And in my feverish state I re-read this:

"The President's race had nothing to do with objections. That is a cheap shot and you are better than that."-Joe...
...and I found myself thinking "Where would the GOP be without the slave states?" Suspecting that such a statement in print might evoke cries of "Playing the Race Card" I thought (again,the fever) that your blog attracts such a high class of Republican perhaps we could appeal to ne, like Joe, to pen a letter to the Texas GOP advising them that advocating the repeal of the Voting Rights Act is poor form, or petition the Alabama Legislature to remove Confederate Memorial Day from the list of Official State Holidays or even here in Tennessee suggest to the Department of Revenue that selling Sons of Confederate Veteran license plates was distasteful because the CSA is a Neo-Confederate White Supremist front group...whew...the heat.

Hi Everybody!

RJ

Anonymous said...

CSA update...

Fact is, Robert E Lee was a traitor,who violated his oath as a graduate of West Point to 'preserve, protect and defend' the Constitution of the United States. When he refused the command of the Army and chose instead to direct his energies towards the welfare of Virginian landholders makes worship of him mind-boggling..

MR

Anonymous said...

@MR-

Like a bolt out of the blue the "Lost Cause" ideology crashed into my life via my 14 year old daughter recently. Never imagined I'd be revisiting this issue in 2012. You're clearly a very well read person but just in case I'll recommend 2 books. "Race and Reunion" by David Blight at Yale and "Confederate Reckoning" by Stephanie McCurry at Penn. Both have lectures available online. Of interest, Dr. McCurry is originally from Northern Ireland so it would be hard to claim she has a regional agenda. Her take away quote "In time and place there is no debate that the CSA was a white male nation with racist foundations." Blight "The Lost Cause ideology is a conscious and deliberate manipulation of history."

RJ

Anonymous said...

To try and get this back on track...

Don't you(the readership)think that if there was a large Japanese community on Maui that routinely celebrated the valor of the Pearl Harbor Attackers and BHO went to their B-B-Q it would be an election issue?

RJ

For the record,IMHO, at the VERY LEAST, Jeff Davis(Former US Secretary of War, Former Commandant of West Point)should have hanged for treason. Probably Lee and a few others.

Joe said...

Hold on, I have to put on my troll hat and shoes.

There.

You are on to us. Of course we oppose ObamaCare because he is black. And we opposed it in the 1990's whe nthe Clintons were proposing it because Hillary is a woman. And we were opposed when Ted "The Swimmer" Kennedy was pushing it in the 80's because of Mary Jo.

Bill said...

You may be on to something with this race thing. Maybe it was Obama's white half that didn't want a mandate and his black half that does? White half: "You'll get to keep your existing insurance". Black half: Well, you get the idea. It's perfectly understandable, really.

VideoDude said...

In 1993, the individual mandate was a conservative Republican ideal. Straight from the Conservative think tank the Heritage Foundation. It was until Obama supported it, that the Teapublicans became against it just like these other policies:

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/06/22/24-policies-that-republicans-supported-before-they-were-against-them/

Someone please tell my why! Why would 7 senators, including John McCain support "Cap & Trade", until Obama was for it, then all seven voted against the very policy they not only supported but sponsored?

Erin O'Brien said...

I don't think you're a troll, Joe. You put forth your heartfelt argument in the interest of honest debate. Like you are saying: this is my point of view.

Trolls just try to piss people off. That said, it's folks like ol' Bill, with his oh-so-fucking-hilarious sketch above on white Obama/black Obama, that fuel the race issue.

VideoDude said...

Naybe it is a Conservative/Liberal fight in Obama. Or is it a right/wrong fight?

Bill said...

Folks like Bill rarely inject race into a political argument. But, some folks like Bill defend themselves from the stereotypical charges of racism from liberals who feel guilty about something in their own lives or history.

Erin O'Brien said...

Spittin' out the bait here, boss. Spittin' out the bait.

LoafingOaf said...

The Republicans seem to believe they only need 50 seats in the Senate plus the White House to repeal the bill, not 60. I have no idea which is right. Still seems like they'll fall short, but I'd like to know for sure what number of seats they'd need to repeal it. Ohio's senate race may be crucial.

LoafingOaf said...

"And we opposed it in the 1990's whe nthe Clintons were proposing it because Hillary is a woman."

Actually, a mandate was part of the Republican's alternative to Clinton's health care bill. What the blog post above points out is how strange it is that Republicans are so freaked out by an individual mandate when proposed by Obama (as a compromise to Republicans) yet the idea comes from Republican circles and was even supported by Mitt Romney.

Anonymous said...

@loafing...

Do believe the ACA was passed as part of budget reconciliation. If it is handled like a tax I think the reconciliation process reuiring a simple majority vs super majority is correct. However I also know the Senate has more rules than Carter has pills(I date myself) so who knows wtf will happen. GOP seems to think the ruling is "Down Ticket Gold" so of course every legislative seat is important.

@Bill-Do you get paid every time you use a buzz word like "white guilt"?

RJ

Anonymous said...

Oh yeah...

Sarah Pallin said the ruling was "a gift from God" because it will restore the fire to the Tea Party. (If there is a God you think it sits around doing legislation? I mean wouldn't a super nova or a colapsing neutron star be a whole lot more fun?) I suppose if they flame out then it will be Obama's fault.

RJ

Bill said...

@RJ: Yes. Clarence Thomas, Thomas Sowell, and Shelby Steele, all send me money. Plus, I sleep very well. And, E, you can spit out the bait but the hook is pretty much set.

Anonymous said...

Asshole
MR

Anonymous said...

Sorry, I take that back. My asshole objects to the association.

MR

PS-Did you know that Clarence Thomas got his college degree from Holy Cross as a direct result of an affirmative action program instituted by Holy Cross's chancellor?

Anonymous said...

There is good news today. Tennessee is now Arizona. 107 today, 109 yesterday in middle TN. When the power grid fails and all the vulnerable die healthcare won't be quite as expensive.

RJ

P.S. There is no scarcity there is only greed.

LoafingOaf said...

Anonymous who replied to me:

I think the Republicans just feel they have an argument for not needing 60 votes, but that doesn't make it so. There would probably be a huge fight over that!

But I could be wrong. I wish I knew the answer because if they need 60 votes then there's almost no chance they'll repeal it. Though I still think they only have a slim chance in any case.

"GOP seems to think the ruling is 'Down Ticket Gold' so of course every legislative seat is important."

I don't know what that phrase "down ticket gold" means, but I think you're saying it's going to mobilize the base of the party? IMO, I don't even believe Romney thinks he'll ever actually get the health care law repealed, and I suspect that if you hooked him up to a lie detector he doesn't even want to (given that Obamacare is virtually the same as Romneycare).

But Romney thinks he can use this to get the base of his party more behind him and to the voting booths. And I think the party will use Obamacare exactly like they use abortion. Something to whip up their angry base with every election.

Bill said...

@RJ: In 2003, during an August heat wave in France, over 14,000 people died. Most of them elderly. The greedy French, the healthy young ones, were mostly on vacation, and left the old frail people to suffer alone. Evidently the, superior to the U.S. health system, didn't help much. I believe there have been about 14 deaths possibly associated with this 18 state heat wave. If I were in the heat wave area, I would definitely be checking on any old and/or frail people I know of.

Anonymous said...

@loafing

"Down Ticket" is sometimes used to describe candidates for things like congressman, etc.

In the ruling Roberts said it was not the courts job to correct decisions resulting from voters choices. This has been interpreted to mean that congress needs to deal with ACA. So a Republican majority could nullify it if they can get in office. (Also been interpreted to mean quit sending SCOTUS every little silly complaint just because you happen to disagree with it-"They can't do that IT'S UNCONSTITUTIONAL!)

RJ

RJ

Anonymous said...

@Bill

If you found someone suffering the effects of hyperthermia that you knew had no health insurance what would you do?

RJ

Bill said...

@RJ: The first thing I would do is ask to see their national health care coverage card. If they didn't have it I would leave and say "good luck". I mean who, in their right mind, would try to keep them cool or take them to an emergency room? Would probably want to see their voter ID card too. Can't be too careful.

Al The Retired Army Guy said...

"Fact is, Robert E Lee was a traitor,who violated his oath as a graduate of West Point to 'preserve, protect and defend' the Constitution of the United States. When he refused the command of the Army and chose instead to direct his energies towards the welfare of Virginian landholders makes worship of him mind-boggling."

When I was in the Officer Basic Course at Fort Benning many years ago, we had a leadership class where we were divided into groups of 6 each. We were given the names of 4-5 captains of history, e.g., Grant, Ghenghis Khan, Wellington, etc. and told to discuss them, then rank them from best to worst from a military leadership perspective. Once we did this, we'd pick someone from our group to brief the rest of the class on our choices, and our reasons for them ....

Well, it just so happens that one of the people we got to discuss was Robert E. Lee. We had others, but we ranked him last. And we picked one 2LT Thomas Greco, of Maine, with a distinctive New England accent to brief our findings to the class...

Tom stood up, went down the list, and finally came to Lee. With his thick accent, Tom said "and we picked Rahbaht E. Lee as the wooorrst." Our instructed asked why, and Tom said "because he was a traitah to his country." At that, about 15 of our fellow classmates jumped out of their chairs (all sons of the south, from places like the Citadel, North Georgia College, etc.), all looking like they wanted to beat Tom senseless for such blasphemy. The instructors calmed things down, but a few folks followed Tom out to his car after class.

Suffice to say people revere Robert E. Lee down here, even today.

Al
TRAG

Erin O'Brien said...

I would pay good money to hear Al read his comment above out loud, particularly Tom's quotes.

Anonymous said...

I just couldn't believe Al wouldn't get in on the military stuff eventually. Believe me Al it has taken me practically all of my 58 years to get comfortable with the truth of the Confederate States of America. I do not mean to suggest that choosing loyalties wouldn't have created psychological conflict for people like Lee but one of the unintended consequences of the relatively lenient terms of surrender-proposed by Lincoln BTW- was to impart a certain legitimacy to the Confederacy that helped spawn the "Lost Cause" ideology we still live with today and which I'm battling a member of the local chapter of Sons of Confederate veterans who told my daughter claims of racism attached to the Stars and Bars are inaccurate. As an example did you know the original Memorial Day Celebration was carried out by freedmen intering corpses of Union war dead in the infield of a horse racing track which now borders the Citadel campus outside Charleston? There is still no marker or acknowledgement of the event on the ground though efforts are underway to do so.
"The First Memorial Day."
Brian Hicks
Charleston Post Courier
Sunday, May 24, 2009 12:01 a.m.
UPDATED: Thursday, March 22, 2012 This April 1865 photo shows the graves of Union soldiers who died at the Race Course prison camp in Charleston, which would later become Hampton Park. On May 1 of that year, former slaves gave the fallen a daylong funeral.


RJ

Anonymous said...

If RJ is Brian Hicks that would explain a lot.
James Old Guy

Anonymous said...

@James-

No explanation provided
, sorry. Randy Johnson. No relation to either of which I am aware.

Al The Retired Army Guy said...

Personally, I think Lee is overrated as a commander. While he was initially successful (Bull Run I and II, Chancellorsville, Fredericksburg) his failure at Gettysburg to accurately read the battlefield ("we hit them on the left and right, they must be weak in the center") cements his reputation as a poor offensive commander in my view. And his offensive campaigns were notable for their lack of strategic goals. He was, however, very good on the defense.

Greatest commander in American History? For me it's George Washington. Best tactical/operational commander? Without a doubt, George Patton. Robert E. Lee? Well, he's up there, but again, I still think he's overrated. Kind of like Rommel - great tactical/operational commander, but ....

Al
TRAG

Anonymous said...

@Al-

The stuff I've been reading says Lee's men loved him. Had almost a mystical quality. But could there have been a sadder, more tragic scene than him riding out and apologizing to the survivors of Pickett's Charge?

RJ

Al The Retired Army Guy said...

RJ:

Lee's men admired him to be sure. In fact, it was his men's confidence in him and his belief that they could do just about anything that played a large part in the defeat of the Army of Northern Virginia at Gettysburg.

I've actually been to Gettysburg about four times, and have done two staff rides there (a military tour of a former battlefield, where the battle is studied and lessons from it learned). I've also walked the entire length of Pickett's Charge (not really a charge, BTW) from Seminary Ridge (Confederate lines) to Cemetery Ridge (Union Lines), starting at the point at which Lee met his men after the failure of the attack on the Union Center. It's about a mile or so to walk.

What most don't understand is that as you walk the ground, a defilade begins. In other words, the ground slopes downward, making it impossible for the Union troops on Cemetery Ridge at The Angle and the Copse of Trees (the focus of Pickett's attack) to see them as they advanced. However, about halfway through the advance, the defilade ends, exposing troops advancing to musket and cannon fire (the Union had artillery on the high ground on Cemetery Ridge). Couple that with the fence at the Chambersburg Pike (about 400 yards from the Angle and the Copse of Trees) and you have a looming disaster for the advancing Confederates. By that point, the Union troops were essentially firing at point blank range, with canister, grapeshot and musket/rifle fire.

It truly must have been a tragic scene to see Lee apologizing to his men. But I must say that the attack should never have happened. The truth is Lee's intelligence as to the Union troop disposition was sorely lacking, due to the fact that J.E.B. Stuart and his cavalry were absent from the battlefield during key times. As such, Lee really didn't know what he faced on the third day of the battle, and as a result, launched an attack that was basically doomed to failure. His belief that his boys could do anything also contributed to the defeat.

As I said, Lee was a great commander in the defense (much like Field Marshal Sir Bernard Law Montgomery), but in the offense, he was shown to be lacking. But that salient fact hasn't diminished the awe and respect in which many in the South still regard him.

Al
TRAG

Al The Retired Army Guy said...

RJ:

BTW, it wasn't the Chambersburg Pike. It was the Emmittsburg Road. My bad.

Al
TRAG

Anonymous said...

@Al-

Thanks for taking the time to respond. I love those posts. I have never been to Gettysburg but hope to go one day. There's quite a bit of discussion in the historical lit I'vee been reading about the fascination the Civil War holds over the U.S. public. Being from Birmingham I thought I'd left it long behind. But regardless of the valor and romance in the human stories the historical record is clear. The intention of the rich planter slave owners that fueled the secession movement(and it was by no means a slam dunk) was to build a white male nation state that would be the perfection of the white supremacy over blacks. See Alexander Stephens-V.P. CSA- "Cornerstone" Speech given in Savannah in March, 1861.

RJ

philbilly said...

Ditto on Washington. I don't have anywhere near Al's insight and knowledge, but I am awestruck by Washington's story. He never wanted to be a Revolutionary leader, he desired above all else a commission from the Crown as a capstone to his achievements in the wilderness of the Northeast fighting the French. By cheating him out of that honor, the British could not know he would come out of retirement to lead the Colonies. One of the things I like about living in the CLE is our proximity to the locales that figured in his history,for instance The Battle of the Monongahela near Pittsburgh.

Anonymous said...

Sounds like Washington would've been happy running an organic foods co-op in Burlington.

RJ

Erin O'Brien said...

There is so much testosterone in this comment thread, I'm practically getting pregnant just reading it.

Anonymous said...

@Al...on land, Grant, by a mile. And he was an immensely intelligent man as well. His memoirs are fascinating.

At sea, Raymond J Spruance, who had the balls to execute the victory at Midway and the wisdom not to overreach. And at the Phillipine Sea, he fought HIS battle, and destroyed the offensive power of the IJN.

MR

Al The Retired Army Guy said...

MR: I give Patton the nod on land over Grant. Grant was not what I would call a great tactician (his losses bear witness to that), but there is no doubt he was successful. Patton, on the other hand was ahead of his time in that he understood that by attacking quickly ("grab 'em by the nose and kick 'em in the ass") he would not only have fewer casualties, but he'd take ground much faster and keep his adversaries off balance and unsynchronized. Only Patton could have pulled off what his Third Army did during the Battle of the Bulge, for example.

Spruance - I would agree he was a great naval commander. Fletcher ranks up there as well.

@ RJ: No one would be happy running anything in Burlington, unless they were from there. Trust me on that one. ;-)

@ Erin: One can never have enough testosterone. Even in a blog thread ....

Al
TRAG

Al The Retired Army Guy said...

@ RJ:

Having lived where I do for the past 20 years, I think I can say that for a lot of folks the Civil War never ended in many respects. There is still a bit of, uh, disdain for Northerners down here, even 147 years after the fact, particularly if one gets into the deep south (Mississippi, parts of Georgia, Alabama, etc.). Also, anytime a Confederate flag is flown there is a major conflagration it seems. Most have moved on, but others haven't and that is truly unfortunate.

It's interesting to me to see some defend the secession of the southern states as an exercise in "states' rights." My reply is usually, "well, what right were they exercising?" I usually hear "the right to self-determination." At that, I respond by saying "to include slavery?" and usually get some hyperbole about how it was never about that. Sure it wasn't.

My take is that the issue of slavery, as you note, was the central issue, though not the only issue that led to the secession. For people to deny that is ignoring the obvious, given the historical record in my opinion.

BTW, if you ever want to piss off someone who takes pride in their Confederate forbears, simply do this ....

Me: "Say, want to see a Confederate salute?"
Southerners Who Take Pride in Their Confederate Forbears: "Sure!"
Me: (Raises both arms in the air).
Southerners Who Take Pride in Their Confederate Forbears: "Damn Yankee!"
Me: "Oh, and I'm from Ohio. Grant and Sherman were from Ohio, too."
Southerners Who Take Pride in Their Confederate Forbears: "You barbarian!"
Me: "You're Welcome."

Al
TRAG

Anonymous said...

@Al-

Probably no more than a mile from my office on the public square in McMinnville, TN is a historical marker that states, in part: "Not far from here stood the house which Gen. John Hunt Morgan used as his headquarters prior to the start of his ill-fated Ohio raid in the summer of 1863."

Of course that was prior to the formation of the Southeastern Conference.

RJ

Anonymous said...

I just noticed the date...Armistead would be approaching Cushing's battery right about now...

MR

Anonymous said...

Ironically Vicksburg was falling to Grant at the same time. The vice was tightening on the CSA.

RJ

Al The Retired Army Guy said...

MR is correct. At this point, they'd be firing grape shot and canister as well as solid shot. And Winfield Scott Hancock would be shot as well as Lew Armistead. After the battle, Armistead's Bible was given to Hancock's wife.

One of the interesting things on one of the staff rides I took was that my boss and my commanding officer at the time were both from the south. As were were stopped in Devil's Den discussing what happened, there, we talked about how things went wrong for the Confederates, and how they could have avoided that problem. My boss, a proud son of Tennessee (his family goes back many generations there) stood up and said, "Sir, you mean we could have taken Little Round Top?" It was not lost on all of us that he said "we" when referring to the Confederate forces. Kind of funny if you ask me.

Al
TRAG

philbilly said...

Regarding the South and slavery, Great Britain abolished slavery first in 1807, then added teeth to the law by banning its practice anywhere in the Empire in 1833. Abolition was the trend in most of the world, save for the South.

In the South, Whitney's cotton gin and its many patent infringed copies launched a massive new industry by allowing inland cotton to be processed, as opposed to the limited crops of tidewater cotton.

As the South shipped cotton even to Egypt, the demand for slaves was met by privateers and pirates, the traditional portbound slavers being forced to scuttle or refit by the Royal Navy. And so an even more brutal trade developed, with the South utterly dependent on it for its wealth.

Always follow the money.

philbilly said...

Two additional points: the ruling classes in the South gave sparse thought or concern to the fortunes of the poor white working classes, who's descendants, it would seem, now embrace the ideology as paternal in nature.

In the North, industry capitalized upon rapid advances in steam power to ultimately begin to dwarf the economic output of the South.

Again, the money, the money.

Anonymous said...

@philbilly et al as our journey through the past continues...

One segment of the southern population often ignored in historical accounts is women. White women were totally disenfranchised and only had standing as it issued from their husbands. Early in the war nonslaveholding men were told they were fighting for family and country and in some places 70-80% of the male population went off to war. 'Round about 1863 poor folks started losing enthusiasm for the cause and rates of desertion among confederate troops began to increase. Unfortunately deserters faced the death penalty (See: "Cold Mountain: based on an archive from a desertion tragedy) Poor white women lead food riots in 1863. In occupied towns like New Orleans when a woman would be accused of aiding and abetting the enemy and be taken to jail one of the first things they'd say was "You can't put me in jail, you're trying to treat me like a man." By the end of the war there were many women being held in a sort of legal limbo so ultimately they just declared a blanket amnesty and released them and the legal status of women remained uncertain. Slaves had actually had more status legally prior to emancipation because they were covered by property laws. These are not things school kids in the South are taught. In Re: slavery. You're right it was being banished all through the hemisphere in the 19th century and in correspondence and other archives of the era the slave owners feared a rebellion like Haiti. They also warned that if the slaves were freed they would savagely rape white women because they had no ability to control their base impulses. It's not hard to make the connection between those stories and the "Southern Strategy" of the 1960's and beyond.

RJ

Anonymous said...

While I'm here...

Al will probably have some good data on this but Longstreet was often blamed for the Confederate loss at Gettysburg because he hesitated in executing some orders allowing Union troops to get into better position. Longstreet had not been enthusiastic about another foray into the north. He wanted to take troops west where he though the war was being lost. (See: Vicksburg) Historians today speculate Longstreet was scapegoated for Gettysburg, even though military records do question some of his actions, because after the war he supported Grant for President, as did John "The Gray Ghost" Mosby of Mosby's Raiders fame. After the war he refused to attend memorial services in which it was denied slavery had been the cause of the confederate rebellion. He said he had no remorse about his actions because "a soldier fights for his country. But the war was fought over slavery." Longstreet was one of the last major figures to get a statue at Gettysburg and is still reviled by many in the South.
Are we really having this conversation in 2012?

RJ

Al The Retired Army Guy said...

RJ - Longstreet hesitated because he truly believed that an attack against the Union center would fail (proved correct by events). He made these concerns known to Lee, who ordered the attack anyway. When approached by Pickett, who was to be in the center of Pickett's "Charge," Longstreet very begrudgingly gave his assent, merely waving Pickett away, too disturbed to speak.

Longstreet has, as you note, been tagged as a scapegoat for Gettysburg. In my opinion, as someone who walked the ground and holds a degree in military history, the blame belongs with Lee. He should never have attempted that attack. J.E.B. Stuart's absence from the battlefield didn't help him. But for someone who many hold as a military "genious," his actions on 3 Jul 63 defy military logic.

Al
TRAG