Let this innocent blood fuel the desire to restore our unity instead of fueling the venom that feeds our vitriol. Everyone please try to build a bridge today. Kiss the babies. Lock up the guns.
Godspeed to the Arizona shooting victims and their families.
* * *
97 comments:
We are stardust
Billion year old carbon
We are golden
Caught in the devil's bargain
And we've got to get ourselve's back to the garden.
Joni Mitchell
rj
It's ironic the this clown's two favorite writers, Marx and Hitler, also wanted guns locked up.
Therefore if I read Marx, Hitler or support gun control I am a clown.
Thanks for putting the first plank in the bridge Rev.
By the way would you cite the text in which Marx calls for locking guns up.
Thank You.
rj
Rev,
I think you may have missed this, "Let this innocent blood fuel the desire to restore our unity instead of fueling the venom that feeds our vitriol."
Try and focus on the intent of the sentiment rather than grabbing at puffs of smoke.
If you kill people in front of a supermarket, you are a clown. If you would like to be a clown for others reasons RJ, go for it. I could have used a harsher would to describe the gun man, but I thought clown would work. Guess I was wrong. On to Marx. He called for a confiscation of all property of emigrants and rebels. I think, as do other, more qualified people on this subject, that Mr. Marx was proposing the stripping of all property and rights of the ruling class or anyone else that might threaten his revolutionary state. In other words, take away anything that could be used to stop him. I am sure you know more about this subject than I do, so I will wait for you to reply on how dumb I am. That is when the real first plank shall be laid down.
What the hell are you lot carping on about. At this moment there is a nine year old baby dead in Arizona. Fuck Marx and whatever other horse you rode in on. Keep that child in your mind, then you might see what's important.
And what sort of brainless twats are you breeding that would endorse the painting of a 'scopes range markings over their political opponents. And then to have the gall to act shocked when such is used.
Any political argument or rant or debate should not result in bullets fired. No more. The world, our world, is devolving by this very act. No matter president, congressman (or woman), grocery store manager, writer, actor, gas station attendant, whatever, we are all people.
Let's do better in this world than this.
Devolving, damn. Comes from me reading presidential fiction again, particularly "Full Disclosure" by William Safire. I meant "degenerating."
All I was doing in my first post was pointing out something I found ironic. All the self righteous people after turned what I said into what they wanted to hear. None of you were sitting next to me when I wrote it. None of you know what I was thinking when I wrote it. I also find it ironic he uses all three of his names. Will this lead to a flame job??
No flame jobs from me today, Rev, which is true most every day.
There's plenty of others out there in Internet land using this opportunity to spew hatred and political bipartisanship. I don't intend to be one of them.
Rev, when I read your first comment, I thought you were merely being ironic, and that rj and others were overreacting to what they mistakenly believed to be a pro-gun statement.
Then I read your second comment...
Haven't read enough Marx to know whether he was for gun control or not, but if he wanted to take over the state he would have naturally been in favor of the "ruling class" disarming. I'm sure George Washington would have wanted the Redcoats and Hessians to adopt musket control. It would have made his revolution that much easier. I kind of doubt Marx or Washington or any other revolutionary you can think of had any serious expectations that their respective ruling classes would be so obliging.
As for your use of the term "ruling class." You write as if they're a fixed group of people. Ruling classes are relative. Had Marx ever gained power (which he didn't) he would have been the ruling class. When one of his more enthusiastic readers, Lenin, gained power, the Bolsheviks replaced the czarists as the ruling class in Russia. I'm not attacking you, Rev, I just not sure what you meant by "ruling class". As you said, I wasn't sitting next to you reading your mind.
Erin, did you know the congresswoman who was shot in Arizona had a bullseye drawn on her picture on Sarah Palin's website?
I sure did know that, Kirk, and here's what I have to say about it: I detest that "crosshairs" map today exactly as much as I detested it the day she posted it.
What truly bothers me about this whole thing is how a mentally disturbed person (by all accounts I've read so far, anyway) got his hands on a gun and ammunition. I'm wondering if he got it illegally. If he did purchase them legally, there is a bigger problem here.
Ironically (and tragically), the Congresswoman was known as a gun rights advocate from some of the things I've read.
My thoughts go out to her, her family, and all the friends and family of the victims of this horrible act of senseless violence. As for the alleged shooter (that's right, he's still innocent until proven guilty in our justice system), I hope that justice is served and he gets locked up for the rest of his days or the death penalty (which, due to his attack on a federal judge and a member of Congress, will be available for prosecutors to pursue).
Al
TRAG
Nut jobs are normally not associated with any of our political parties. Trying to lay the blame on anyone other than the shooter is pointless.
JOG
Regarding Loughner's gun: Here is the Associated Press report on it via Frum Forum, which I consider to be a reliable conservative source (rightie David Frum runs the site and although I often disagree with him, he's smart and thorough).
I was being self righteous. Sometimes that looks ironic.
You are right of course Vince and others. That could have been my daughter.
rj
Does anyone actually think that a map with crosshairs on a district, translates to "kill someone"? You'd have to be a total idiot to come to that conclusion. Anyone ever heard of battle ground states and other battle related terms when discussing elections? Give me a break. Pleas don't try to use this tragic, unbelievably sad, travesty, as a political point. Please!
Could someone please take Bill? I'm enjoying a cocktail.
I admit I have some trouble understanding how "Tossing Salad" translates to oral anal sex but for some I guess it's highly suggestible.
Sarah’s FB, dated March 28, 2010 — three days after the crosshair image was published:
“In the battle, set your sights on next season’s targets! From the shot across the bow – the first second’s tip-off – your ………leaders will be in the enemy...’s crosshairs, so you must execute strong defensive tactics. You won’t win only playing defense, so get on offense! The crossfire is intense, so penetrate through enemy territory by bombing through the press, and use your strong weapons – your Big Guns – to drive to the hole. Shoot with accuracy; aim high and remember it takes blood, sweat and tears to win.”
Vague, but possible I suppose for someone with a paranoid delusion and a hankerin to impress a former part time government official.
rj
rj. yeah. you're right. i'm amazed that we haven't had hundreds of people rushing to kill congress people they don't agree with because of the FB thing. Of course Sirhan Sirhan didn't have the benefit of the internet to spur him on. For that matter, neither did John Wilkes Booth.
It only takes one.
rj
I find this list interesting:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assassinated_American_politicians
it pains me beyond words to see this event used as a platform for "i'm right, you're wrong." fuck that shit. please. give it a rest. recognize this insanity as the insanity that it is. there is nothing to be gained from harming each other, by words or by actions.
Your words don't harm me. My words don't harm you. Oh Great! Deepak Chopra is now on MSNBC telling us how to heal our country.
To be honest, after poking around the Internet and seeing some of the god-awful behavior out there, I'd say the Owner's Manual group is holding its own.
Now a bit on Palin. I surely do not blame her for this tragedy. I meant what I said before, her gun rhetoric has always been disgusting to me. And we all know who she's courting with it. Well now something awful has happened and she's got that gun rhetoric hanging around her neck whether she likes it or not.
I thought this Politico article on Palin's current dilemma was pretty good.
And we all ought to take pause over what Al said. Loughner is emerging as a miserable nut case. We pretty much have decided to give the general public access to high-powered weaponry, behold the consequences. All the "guns make us safer" people out there don't stand a chance against the likes of Loughner and his legally-obtained semi-automatic.
Does anybody remember when the gun control controversy was about allowing people to buy handguns for chrissake?
it's just annoying that this shooting is "caused by political rhetoric that needs to be toned down" and something like the 13 murders at Fort Hood, is something that we should "not be judgemental" about. I do think that gun control is a legitimate issue to discuss. This sick young man in AZ should not have been able to buy a gun.
The use of "ruling class", or if you like, "Bourgeoisie", are those in a society that have the ability, or do, own. That's how Marx saw it. I was only responding to RJ's request to provide the Marx text. And let us not forget the map the Democratic Leadership Committee produced showing targets over Republicans they thought were capable of defeat. The Dem's called it their Target Strategy.
It's more than gun control, this nut job could have found other ways to make his statement. The real problem is this guy was a mental case, clear to many people and nothing was done, minor problems with the law, kicked out of class, unable to join the military, somewhere someone failed to follow up. We all know people who are suspect but the difference between different and dangerous is a very difficult thing to figure out. It is a tragedy, but there were other tragedy's on the same day. I am just sick of people trying to advance some sort of agenda on a tragedy.
James Old Guy
I understand Target is considering changing it's name to "Point of Interest".
Well now here's some positive action that's sure to help.
"Rep. Robert Brady (D-Pa.) reportedly plans to introduce legislation that would make it a federal crime to use language or symbols that could be perceived as threatening or inciting violence against a federal official or member of Congress."
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/136895-dem-planning-bill-that-would-outlaw-threatening-lawmakers
Gee, how many others do you suppose will be making political hay out of this tragedy with reactionary bullshit legislation.
It's no wonder politicians are such a despised lot.
This is a tragedy, as is this country's ability to arm lunatics.
I wonder if the Brady Law had not been allowed to expire, if it would have kept this guy from getting a gun?
If Sister Sarah's "Gun Cross-hair" post had no bearing on this, then why did she pull it down after the Saturday shooting? Makes me think someone might feel a little guilty!
I wonder why we can't disagree without demonizing the other side?
We won't even discuss, at this point, From the right: "2nd Admendment remedies", "trading ballots for bulletts" etc., From the left: "Repubs are Taliban", "Repubs healthcare plan...die quickly", etc.
We do not live in a vacuum.
VideoDude,
As you may or may not have noticed from my occasional comment here, I tend to the right on most issues. I have a very dear and sweet friend who tends toward the left. While we disagree on many issues, we can discuss anything rationally, respecting one anothers point of view, without resorting to screaming, name calling or finger pointing. We have even been known to come to terms and compromise once in a while. It's a shame the whole country can't take a lesson from us. But then of course the political arena would be lacking in much of it's sensationalism and entertainment value.
Alphadog,
Agreed! However, I would be willing to do without the entertainment, if we could have some real politcal debate in this country without all the demonizing.
We seem to be able to do it here on this blog. Maybe the country needs EOB as it's "Moderator in chief"!
Vid,
As long as you mean real political debate and not the campaigning that poses as debate on the televised specials.
EOB as moderator, why not.
I can brush up for 2012, but ... if you elect me as the next president of the United States of America ...
Here's some vitriol. The left, (I won't list names but just watch a couple of hours of MSNBC) while trying to hide behind the mask of sorrow, can't really suppress the joy they feel because they think they have the disaster they need to put the conservatives on defense. As one liberal analyst said,(I think it was on Chris Matthews), "Obama needs an OK City to connect him with the people". It is just so obvious and disgusting to hear these people try make this sick kid into some right wing tool. Serously! Watch a couple of hours of MSNBC. And, that channel is not alone. By the way; does anyone remeber the hatred spewed about Bush? I don't recall an outcry when a book was published about his assasination. How about when Matthews hoped someone would blow up Limbaugh? How many lefties opined, often, about Cheney dying? The hypocracy makes me want to puke.
Not really sure I want to nudge the thread in this direction but I agree wholeheartedly with Bill.
I offer for your consideration the following:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQ7r5ivupTU&feature=player_embedded
It's not necessary to view the entire 5 plus minutes to get the general idea.
Heh. My secret word is pastebil
Thank you for that informative footage, Mr. Alph. After all, carefully edited snippets that are tagged with language such as "idiot," and "liar" and "liberal elite" that were posted nearly a year ago are really helpful.
Now then, gentlemen, CODE ORANGE NEW ALERT: if you're going to listen to Fox and MSNBC, you're going to listen to politicized polarization. The point of this post was to decry same.
Thank you for your continued support.
Love,
Erin
If you will note Ms. O'Brien, I did preface my comment with "Not really sure I want to nudge the thread in this direction..." But I do believe Bill has a very valid point and I would be happy to provide you with further examples upon request.
MSNBC has a market niche. FOX NEWS has a market niche. They program for ratings. I doubt any of the commenters on this blog think they're much more than glorified soap operas. I think someone (Philbilly?) even said that in other comments on this here blog once upon a time. Yet I would be the last to call for any type of censureship. So when tragedy occurs in a capitalist country it represents many things but it also is good for the news business, whether I am pleased with that or not. This is not a secret. Political players exploit it. This is not a secret either for reasonably informed people. Unfortunately alot of their viewers buy their editorial spin as gospel, just like they buy some political personalities drivel, regardless of ideology, as gospel. That's why we end up with formulaic political discourse with a bunch of code words. It works. Think about it. If 55% of eligible voters turn out in an American election we think it was some sort of landmark. 45% just don't give a shit or are so disillusioned they don't bother to vote. How many of that voting group have actually done what we try to do and have some semblance of an in depth grasp of the issues and how many vote just based on what some opinion leader endorses?
So pissing and moaning about who's right and who's wrong won't change the behavior of most voters. I think our job, regardless of personal preference, is to try and combat intellectual laziness. But how the fuck? Damned if I know. Ask TRAG why TV dinners continue to sell, then maybe we'll know where to start.
RJ
I get the point of your post E but, where is the reporting that tells the story like it is? The one that says a nut case, confused, 22 year old, finally cracked and killed and wounded lots of people. Why bring up Palin or Limbaugh or Beck? What do they really have to do with the story? Answer: Nothing. Does the fact that he wasn't shouting "Allah Akbar", while shooting, make it ok to make the leap to the teaparty? When we lost the 13 soldiers at Ft. Hood, I do not remember the outrage and I do remember most of the press chastising anyone who suggested an Islam connection. Go figure. I'm also disgusted with the preaching from talking heads, telling us to heal our nation. The day I need Deepak Chopra to tell me how to act and talk, I'll seriously consider jumping from the GG Bridge (that's one that's already built). I do agree with the sentiment of your post. Sad. I'm sad too.
Most of the hate speak comes from the right! Anyone who says otherweise is lieing or ignorant. YOUR CHOICE!
I like ABC Nightly News for standard vanilla coverage. CNN is okay for same, but when you click on editorial, Bill, you're going to get editorial.
Now then:
"Where is the reporting that tells the story like it is? The one that says a nut case, confused, 22 year old, finally cracked and killed and wounded lots of people."
That's pretty much the summary of this CNN story, which has no editorial commentary to speak of.
In other words, CAN THE GODDAMN HISTRIONICS, WILLIAM.
Carry on.
E,My comments are not exagerated or over emotional (histrionics).
Videodude: These murders were not caused by hate speech or any other type of speech. Get it?
“If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun,” Barack Obama, June 13, 2008
This comment had nothing to do Saturday's massacre.
Is it possible that people kill because they can. No other reason needed. Right or wrong, people kill.
Eventually we'll get around to a discourse on how mental illness is treated, or as in this case, not treated in this country.
Arizona Mental Health Law
Bill, my point is you're complaining about Chopra/"talking heads"/MSNBC etc.
Huh?
If editorial/opinion bothers you, turn it off.
give a bunch of dumfecks easy access to weapons, throw in some incendiary political and/or religious rhetoric, then act shocked and appalled at the tragedies that begin to develop. This is my USA in the 21st Century. I have accepted it with much sadness. But I will leave it in due time for another, more enlightened, progressive land. I just feel bad for my kids, for leaving this to them. Quite a sad story we're writing here.
For the people who keep whining about "not politicizing" this: your goddamned measly office jobs, complete with bullshit micromanagement, or cubicle preference, are all about politics. EVERYTHING is politics, and if you can't figure that out you're in for some really nasty shocks.
My take is this: of course this parasite is a fucking nut. But how is it possible for him to legally obtain a firearm? How is it possible that in his 22 or however many years walking around, no one actually flagged this guy as someone who needs help? (parents? family?)
Responsibility: I hope all of our idiotic politicians; left, right, center, outer, inner, or wherever in feck they fall, reflect upon the choices or the direction of their campaigns/statements. There are multiple layers of constituency: some are ill educated, some are prone to fear, some are brilliant, some are in the middle, some are paranoid, some are geniuses...remember when you put fucking crosshairs on a map and call out by NAME or by district political opponents, that someone out there may take that shit literally. Or not.
But assume the former. This is the US of A. We carry guns here, we are not interested in much beyond our borders, we don't really travel, we don't give a shit about what others think of us, and we think we're the greatest. And so.
Dig this: say I write a stupid post detailing how I wish so-and-so would jump off a bridge. Say I write it in a purely hypothetical sense--just to make a stupid point.
Say so-and-so jumps off a bridge a few days later.
I'd feel bad about that post, even though I didn't really mean what I said. I'd feel bad about that post even if so-and-so never read it or knew about it. I'd be embarrassed in front of the readers that did see it, even if none of them knew so-and-so. I'd feel bad for so-and-so's family.
And if I were a public figure reaching millions and millions of people, I'd feel even worse.
Words have power. You have to use them responsibly. And when you misuse them, you must be accountable. I am a writer and I take that assertion very seriously.
And that is exactly the context in which I view Sarah Palin's dumb-ass rhetoric and map. She did something offensive and short-sighted for her own gain--and that applies no matter what happened in Arizona this past weekend.
@Swine: Awesome. Perfectly written.
@Erin: I couldn't agree more. Also, how much longer are we really going to have to put up with her? It doesn't make any sense. Why can't she just take her TLC money and go hunt moose forever?
Right. You should only say what you really thing in private. I guess you could take that a step further and try not to think what you think.
On Sunday I was visiting an 87 year old friend who's under hospice care. He's a tough old guy. We were watching someone interview, on the phone, the mother of the little girl who was killed. We avoided looking at each other because both of us were crying.
Jared Loughner didn't give a shit about Palin's map or rhetoric. I'm not a big Palin fan but her map, her rhetoric? Not offensive!
Turnin off MSNBC was great advice. Thanks.
http://homicides.redeyechicago.com/
I'm trying to find out how many of these January homicides in Chicago can be linked to vitriol from the right. I'll Check on Oakland, CA as well. We shouldl also re investigate Virginia Tech.
Um, Bill? Snap out of it. I don't think anyone here is blaming "the right" for what happened in Arizona.
Oh.
Okay, William, I've got to hand it to you. That response made me double over laughing--and this thread could sure use some comic relief.
That's funny Erin. Having been married for a long time, I've learned when to stop talking.
@ RJ ...
Top Ten Reasons TV Dinners Keep Selling:
10 - People are lazy.
9 - People are hungry and lazy. But not lazy enough not to pop a TV Dinner into the microwave when they're hungry.
8 - They're full of things that kind of taste like food, not exactly, but kind of.
7 - They print "low fat" or "0 trans fats" on the box so people think it actually tastes like food. Of course, they don't tell you about all the chemicals replacing the fat.
6. There's nothing like sitting in front of the TV with a tray, gravy from your Salisbury Steak Dinner dribbling down your "wife beater" T-shirt.
5. They don't take up a lot of space inside a trailer's refrigerator.
4. If they didn't sell, Rachel Ray and Paula Deen would be out of a job.
3. They're endorsed by Oprah.
2. They're actually food left behind by aliens. We have to do something with it. Along with the Government cheese.
And the number one reason why TV Dinners keep selling ....
1. They're endorsed by the humble hostess of this blog, Erin O'Brien!
I now return you to your scheduled thread ...
Al
TRAG
HEY!
You just go on and prove your "number one reason" Mr. Retired Army Guy!
Someone just told me that Sheriff Dupnik was aware of several death threats made by the shooter. Does anyone know if this is true? Isn't that Sheriff giving this guy a defense by blaming his actions on vitriol? Any of you legal experts?
Erin,
Just trying to provide some levity. However, I bet if I looked in your freezer, Hot Pockets, Lean Cuisine, and Freschetta pizzas would abound. Watch out! Next time I'm in Cleveland I'll have to do an in depth investigation of your freezer .....
Al
TRAG
Speaking of sad, but way off topic, have you been watching the one year anniversary coverage of Haiti? Who has pissed away all of the money that people sent? Jesus! What is going to change that pitiful situation?
John Boehner thought it was more important to go to a cocktail party for a RNC candidate then to go to the memorial in AZ. I guess he was afraid he might cry for someone other than himself! Nice going, John!
If the Repubs really believe that the political vitriol had nothing to do with this shooting, then why all the defensiveness? Why did Sister Sarah pull the map from FB? Maybe, a little guilt!!!
VDude: To be fair, ABC White House correspondent Jake Tapper says the Boehner "cocktail party" rumor is untrue. I trust Tapper.
Okay,
I retract the statement, even though I am still hearing otherwise.
Where was he then? Pelosi was there, Sen. Kyle was there. He is supposed to be a "Leader" now.
I found this article:
http://gawker.com/5732877/john-boehner-isnt-that-evil
Apperances are everything. I still think a memorial is more important than a "political" cocktail party. The organizers should have postponed it. I think, if I had been him I would not have gone at all. It would have been much better. I mean, they cancelled congessional proceedings for the week, but they couldn't cancel a "cocktail party". GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!!!
Did any of you actually watch that ceremony? If that's what you want to call it? The Indian guy promoting himself and Mexico. The Attorney General reading from the bible. Janet, reading from the Bible. Lots of hooting and hollering at inappropriate times. No Christian preacher (I believe most of the victims were Christian) or Jewish Rabbi. Innappropriate music before the whole thing started. (was watching a live feed on line). Really pretty sick. At least the President didn't do a shout out to the medicine man.
Can't ever please Bill, I tell ya. Tough guy to hang with, it seems. Why are people so pissed about the American Indian blessing? They fucking make my child do the Pledge of Allegiance (One nation under God bullshit) every morning in school. Wah-wah, where was the Christian blessing wah-wah... Man, I tell you, Americans have sure as shit become soft. What the fuck has happened to the Band of Brothers? Ah, they're dying off. TOUGHEN UP, toots-es! Harder times are coming.
The pep rally was just weird. I'm not pissed about it. I don't get the Band of Brothers connection.
What I continue to find very telling and interesting is that despite the media's inability (and for that matter, the FBI and Arizona law enforcement's) to tie the obviously mentally deranged shooter to any right wing party or organization (and by that I mean the Republican Party, the Tea Party Movement, etc.), the belief that right wing "vitriol" was the catalyst for this tragic event still persists. Yesterday, here in Fayetteville, North Carolina, our local "newspaper" published a political cartoon on their op-ed page, which was of a gun. Forming the gun were the names of Rush Limbaugh, Jim DeMint, Rand Paul, Sarah Palin, Glenn Beck, Bill O'Reilly, Allen West (LTC, USA, Ret), Fox News, Michele Bachmann and Sharron Angle. Yep, all these people, who the shooter (according to reports) didn't watch, read, or listen to are responsible for all the "vitriol" which led to the shootings.
BTW, the cartoonist's name is Don Wright if I'm reading it correctly. You can view the cartoon in it's entirety here http://comics.com/don_wright/.
I'm thinking of canceling my subscription to this, uh, "newspaper." I want news, not their spin on it.
As far as the ceremony goes, I've commented on it in other places. The Cliff Notes version of said commentary is that whoever planned it (Obama Staffers, U of A administration, etc.) was an idiot. What should have been a somber, respectful, reflective and dignified event seemed like so much more political rally than memorial service.
As for the Mexican-Indian guy, I was actually taping the thing on TV, and after he started talking, I fast-forwarded it past him. And the U of A President, Holder (I guess he couldn't get Khalid Sheik Muhammad in front of a judge in New York on that day), Napolitano, the intern/student body president, etc. I was more interested in what Obama was going to say. And I felt he gave a pretty good speech, the upshot of was basically, "we should be nice to each other," and to make any debate on the issues civil and respectful.
Al
TRAG
Sorry for the double post.
Al
TRAG
Ah Al, you're just pissed 'cause you didn't get a commemorative t-shirt
Actually, I'm holding out for one of those "Hope and Change" t-shirts they had out during the last Presidential election, preferably with the "Che Guevera" picture of Obama on it. That way, in the event I ever run out of toilet paper, I've got a back up.
Al
TRAG
Don't know if anyone will see this but, regarding the nature of news coverage, anyone besides me curious why a popular uprising in a muslim country that overthrew a dictatorship (Tunisia) is getting only minimal U.S. coverage?
RJ
In Re: Personal Hygiene Products. Perhaps our hostess will entertain a stirring debate on the relative benefit/superiority of an Obama/Che t-shirt VS. W's Biography "Decision Points." 522 seperate sheets of tp. But that's a chat for another day...
RJ
RJ - the difference is the Obama/Che t-shirt is reusable, as it can be washed. Bush's book can't be. Bleeding heart libs would be best served using the t-shirt, don't you think? It's sustainable and all.... hmmm ... maybe I should start a business making Obama wipe-your-ass tees .... uh, nope. I have to pay a shitload of money for Obamacare, so I can't afford to start one ....
Al
TRAG
Is this heated political rhetoric? What's wrong with heated political rhetoric?
I understand that, during the State of the Union Address, the representaves will not sit on opposite sides of the chamber but will sit next to each other alternatating R D R D, etc. I'm thinking the press, our politicians, and many of us, are nuts. Kum Ba Yah!
I think Nancy Pelosi should sit on John Boehner's head.
I would make a lousy fish. I can't spit out the bait.
Al...you already qualify for gov't run healthcare. The VA. Largest public system in the world.
Now, the t-shirt sustainability feature is quite appealing but the washing creates environmental and energy consuming issues that would have to be considered.
RJ
RJ - I didn't qualify for VA benefits - I, like every other veteran earned them.
And there's a reason I don't go the VA for healthcare - it isn't all that great (it is, after all, a government run program). If you don't believe me go to a VA hospital and check it out. There's one near Nashville from what I know.
And it's interesting you noted that the VA is the "largest public system in the world." Equally interesting is the absence of the words "best" and/or "good" in your statement.
Al
TRAG
No one has acused the Right Wing for being at fault. The talk has been to stop all the hateful rhetoric.
The fact is if the Repubs stop the hate speak. They will have nothing to say. Econonmic Conservatism has failed. Neo-Conservatism has failed. If the Repubs were to really start talking about the issues and their so called "answers" it would be a very short conversation.
I just read a comment on another post by a Tea Party Republican, "If the vote doesn't go the way we want we may have to take up arms. Now that is a sore loser.
Very American, If the majority disagrees, we will fight them! WTF!
VA.gov.
I work in a VA primary care clinic M-F 8-4:30. We have a census of roughly 1500 Vets. Some might differ with your assessment.
As with all professions some practitioners are better than others. I've been in healthcare 27+ years. I've seen good and bad in private and public settings.
I agree that Obamacare is a clusterfuck. A bastard child of the insurance and pharmaceutical industries. But certainly not socialism. I support the single payor system. When the public option was eliminated it went belly up.
RJ
RJ
Oh yeah. It SHOULD also be The Best In The World.
RJ
http://ow.ly/1aSLgi
two clowns being clowned
Take up arms?
RE: Vdude's comment:
Who's he going to shoot? Me? A congresswoman holding an open meeting in front of a grocery store?
Is he just going to shoot black people? People who look like lefties? Who's this Big Man going to "take up arms" against?
What a cheezdick.
@ Video Dude - No one's accused the right at being at fault for the Tuscon shootings? Really? This cartoon was published in my local newspaper not two days ago:
http://comics.com/don_wright/2011-01-11/
Note that in that cartoon the words "mental illness" are conspicuously absent. Also note that there isn't a single individual name of someone on the left in the cartoon.
@ RJ - yes, I beg to differ with the assessment of some regarding the VA. It does some things well (educational assistance, rehab, etc.) from what I know. But healthcare, IMHO and IME isn't one of them. If it works for others, fine.
I agree that Obamacare is a clusterfuck. I guess that's what happens when one writes a bill that must be passed so "we can see what's in it."
Al
TRAG
Hey! Does anyone know if that ground zero Mosque is just about complete?
O'Brien meet O'Reilly
http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/oreilly/index.html
@ Bill - don't know if the NYC mosque is built yet, but I'm sure they're going to have to build it first so they can find out what's in it.
As for O'Reilly - for some reason I don't think that our humble hostess is going to click the link.
Al
TRAG
Al: lol on the Mosque. Regarding the O'Reilly link; I'm sure you're right but that was my "oprah, uma" moment. I need to get a life.
Oprah - shit. Just when you think she's gone, she starts her own network.
Al
TRAG
She might start her own currency if Congress keeps on sucking Wall Street's dick.
Ya'know, I couldn't summon the synapses necessary to respond to the derision directed towards the Tucson memorial and eulogy given by Obama. Damned if Pat Buchanan didn't blurt it out on McLaughlin Report, it was an Irish wake, by God.
And even if it was totally a construct of his handlers, it was brilliant. I, however, think it was mostly from the hip.
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