Thursday, March 12, 2009

Now there's a big surprise

Bristol and Levi: I don't.


Anonymous said...


Anonymous said...

Christmas come early! Never, EVER let "The Right" again say liberals are all about style over substance.


The Fool said...

"Unfortunately, my family has seen many people say and do many things to 'cash in' on the Palin name" (Bristol Palin).

So true. No one more so than the Palin's themselves. Especially since McCain put them in the spotlight. Their name is mired in controversy up here in Alaska.

Erin O'Brien said...

I admit to being a flippant shit about it, but in truth my heart goes out to that little girl.

That said, she seems pretty tough and smart. I wish her the best. I really do.

My anger is towards the people you point to, Fool.

Anonymous said...

Yes, please let me clarify. I have no issues with Bristol. It is the exploitation of her and the developmentally delayed baby that flies all over me and that was so vigorously denied by the Palin operatives.


Not HUH? Uh-Huh? said...


Makes you wonder how much Levi got, to hang around long enough after the election, to soften the blow to Gramma Sarah and her political life!

Bristol Palin on abstinance: "It's not realistic"

I feel sorry for the girl, in a way. she didn't want to have a baby, yet. Now she is a teenage single mom. All becuase her mom believes in failed social policies. Maybe mom should have stayed at home with her daughter more, instead of letting her go to parties at 14 and 15.

Do a google search. There are pictures of a younger Bristol at a party with a beer in her hand. Isn't illegal for minors to drink. Where was the Right's moral outrage?

kim said...

I'm not sure how these teenagers have anything to do with anything, other than to be convenient targets for the left, who should be ashamed of themselves. Fact: Bristol was pregnant during the late stages of the campaign. Sarah Palin could have 1) embraced her daughter, showing she was proud of her no matter what, or 2) shunted her off to the side and hid her, as if she were ashamed of her. Palin chose option 1, to her credit. If she'd chosen option 2, the left would have REALLY excoriated her. She couldn't win either way, but please continue vilifying this kid.

Anonymous said...

Dear kim,

When you were being home-schooled did they teach you to read?


Erin O'Brien said...

I am unsure if that is Velociman Kim or not. Doesn't matter. I'm not vilifying this kid and I know damn well that could happen to my kid. Same holds true to any of us.

But what options did that girl have? Could she possibly have aborted the baby in the middle of the campaign? Even under the thickest blanket of secrecy?

Did Sarah Palin make sure she had proper access to birth control or did she just tell her to save it for marriage?

Seeing as Palin was lauded as the goddamn savior by the FUCKING FAMILY RESEARCH COUNCIL FUCKING FUCKHEADS, I'd guess the sex talk in the Palin house was, "cross your legs, honey."

It's the goddamn denial and goddamn hypocrisy that irritate the hell out of me.

Erin O'Brien said...

More on my opinion on Palin and the Family fucking Research Council mother fuckers.

Not HUH? Uh-Huh! said...

Ye, Erin, exactly. It is not the left that is claiming to be holier-than-thou.

The point I was making is: Where was her mother when this 14 & 15 year old girl was going out to "adult" parties? (By "adult" I mean parties with booze.) I am not faulting her for what she did after the fact. She loves and protects he daughter.

How ever and ounce of (rubber) prevention, would have beaten several pounds (Baby) of cure!

"Just say no!" doesn't work for drugs or sex!

Kirk Jusko said...

Erin, why don't you do a future post on the history of abortion? I think your readers might be surprised to find out who's been for and against it these past 3000 years (yes, it's that old).

The Church has been back and forth on the subject, with a pope legalizing it here, and another pope outlawing it there. The current ban goes back to the mid-19th century.

As far as the US goes, it was legal in George Washington's day, and pretty much against the law by the time Lincoln took office.

Historically, concern about the safety of the mother has been the main reason for the various bans, though fear that abortion encourages sex for pleasure has run a close second.

Concern for the mother's health was behind most of the bans in the US in the 19th century, though some feel it was also a backlash against--hold on to your bonnet--the sufferage movement!

Harry Finch said...

Without teenage pregnancy a lot of us wouldn't be here. Without sex for pleasure, nearly none of us would be here.

Making babies may be the only activity at which humans truly excel.

Velociman said...

Yes, that was Vman. Both Sarah Palin and Bristol Palin are on record as supporting contraceptive birth control. In Sarah Palin's case it is her official position as governor. Bristol Palin received contraceptive-based sex education in high school, so does her pregnancy ipso facto prove contraceptive sex education is a failure? No, jst as it does not prove abstinence advocacy is a failure. It IS possible, you know, to advocate abstinency while simultaneously advocating contraceptive use.

Not sure what led RJ to hurl such an insult. My secondary education was at a very liberal prep school in Savannah.

Anyway, my main point was there are plenty of targets without resorting to ad hominems on people's children.

philbilly said...

Making excuses may be the only activity at which humans truly excel.

I got a different take. Thanks a lot you self indulgent spoiled little shits, for treating the act of conceiving and raising a child like so much afterbirth, yesterday's hip idea, tra la la, I must now find myself.

Fuck you, I have to discern and wind my way through literally thousands of young males every day some of whom would just as soon rob my corpse as look at me. Why? While Gore and Bush and the rest of the elite blew the partisan shit back and forth, said lads' mommies and daddies didn't give a flying fuck about how the course of the life they created would play out. Thanks. I'll continue to clean up your mess.

Erin O'Brien said...

Hey Kim, weren't you the one who said this, "Spending what you don't have is stupid, reckless, and irresponsible. So is being an unemployed single mom," in this comment section?

So it's okay to pick on those single moms as long as their unemployed? Well, Mr. Crawford. They're somebody's daughters too. As is Michelle Obama, who you called a "rat shack wife."

Harry Finch said...

Philbilly - I've read your comment several times, and while I think I understand, I wonder if you wouldn't mind clarifying at whom you directed that fuck you.

Erin O'Brien said...

Phil, Harry expressed my reaction perfectly.

Erin O'Brien said...

Hey, Kirk. It does sound like a fascinating topic that takes a different point of view towards this controversial subject. Thanks for your comment.

Anonymous said...

Kim..Mr. V.,

The comments above your remark clearly state the complaints are not with Bristol but with the manner in which she was posed to deliver a message.
Therein is the genesis of my insult.


Erin O'Brien said...

Kim, it's true that you might want to read this entire comment section and tell us exactly how you came to the conclusion anyone here "vilified" Bristol Palin.

And call me sugartits if the conservative right--particularly commentary sites such as yours--wouldn't have sung a different tune if Obama had five kids and the eldest was an unwed teen mom.

On second thought, you can call me sugartits in any event.

And Finch? This morning after rereading your first comment, I had sex just for pleasure by way of endorsement.

Not HUH? Uh-Huh! said...

No one here has attacked Bristol. In fact, I would say most have gone out of their way not to attack her. And by the way, Bristol Palin does not believe that abstinance works. Check out her FOX News interview with Greta. Here words on Abstinance: "It is not realistic".

And there are still those pictures of an underage Bristol with a beer in her hand at a party. Where was mom? Looks like she was getting mixed signals from her parents. Believe in god, be a good christian, practice abstinance, now you can go to a party and drink beer!

My criticism is on this whole idea of "Just say no". It hasn't worked for drugs or sex.

philbilly said...

The "Fuck you" is directed at young men and women who abdicate any responsibility for their loins and the fruit thereof.

Erin O'Brien said...

The sex I had for pleasure this morning put something in my loins, but it wasn't fruit.

Harry Finch said...

So this is old age: a woman endorses my comment by having sex with someone else.

Velociman said...

Erin, spare me the innocence. The entire thrust of the post was to vilify Bristol Palin as a strawman for the "hypocritical right". That's obvious and beyond dispute or you would not have posted about her in the first place. Or were you somehow honoring her and I missed that? Besides, the entire left vilified the girl. You can't walk back that fact.

As to how she was "posed" by her family? How exactly is that? Palin's choice was to embrace or deny her daughter. Very binary. Spin the embrace if you wish, but that's a disengenuous position.

Now, here's a thought for you all: kids can handle the truth. There is no reason not to tell them. So why does the truth that abstinence is the only 100% way to avoid unwanted pregnancy and STD's so infuriate you? Why is telling a teenager abstinence is 100% effective, condoms and other birth control methods are very reliable, but not fool proof? Why not explain condoms fail, and the pill isn't infallible? Why does that so enrage the left? They're just apolitical facts.

Most importantly, why does the left get so bothered when a smallish minority percentage of teens choose abstinence over birth control, when well-educated about the options? Are you lamenting a missed opportunity to molest a teen, or are you just lamenting your own failures as an adolescent?

I can think of no other reasons to smirk and deride these few who choose abstinence.

Finally, no one ever asked me my opinion of Bristol Palin. I think she was pretty much a moron to get knocked up. Especially since she was exposed to safe sex and abstinence programs. No excuses for her from me. I just hope she doen't become a drag on the taxpayers. But I daresay mom will foot any bills, unlike the baby factories in the projects.

Erin O'Brien said...

Spare me the phrase "spare me."

As far as your points are concerned, it's too ridiculous for me to deal with right now. Perhaps someone else would care to cut through your tripe, Mr. Crawford.

I'm going to read a book in bed with a whiskey.

Velociman said...


Amy L. Hanna said...

Frankly, my deer ... I don't caribou what the elk you rink, so puck you.

(Directed at no one in particular.)

philbilly said...

Erin, your sexlife, albeit robust, is so not my business I hesitated to comment. Here's why; You and the Goat shelter and protect your children, you are raising them to be fully formed. The little eyelash gag from a few weeks ago shows great humor and sophistication, for example. Your kids will not be a drain on this society. Your balling is not my problem, and I wish you and Goat many happy tristes.

There is such an abandonment of personal responsibility in this country I am at a loss to understand it. Idiot women laying with idiot pigs and then screaming for support is vile. And it's not just the "baby factories in the projects". It is endemic in our society. Velociman, the bastion of entitlement in this country is not the inner cities, it is the middle and upper class.

Born from people who made sacrifices for generations, these classes will not yield an inch, at least until the crash.

Financially covering the costs of raising a child is only the tip of the iceberg. It is a noble calling, not everyone, even those with a uterus, are cut out for it.

We have to get back to honoring parenthood and hard work, the unchecked greed of the last 40 years and carpetbagging social welfare systems have failed. Our nation must realign its priorities, and I see that happening. Speaking out against the notion that "I fuck, therefore I bear children" is a start. Having a dick and balls does not make me a father, having a pussy does not make a woman a mother.

Not HUH? Uh-Huh! said...

"Abstinance is not Realistic."

Bristol Palin, FOX News with Greta

"Just say No!" It doesn't work for drugs or sex!

I believe what you are saying Velociman is: Bristol had a CHOICE. She chose abstinance. She was allowed to make her CHOICE!

Check out this:

I thought these people professed to be Christians! Where was mom Sarah when Bristol was drinking at parties? At least we on the left will admit to our sins, instead of pretending we are holier-than-thou.
I love how on the same page as the pictures is an ad to donate for SARAHPAC. Wasn't Sarah against PAC's?
May have had something to do with it. Evidently under age drinking is not a crime in Alaska.

It's not the being a conservative I object to, it's being a hypocrit!

Harry Finch said...

Philbilly - On what do you base your statement that we have abandoned personal responsibility in this country? Is it a condition you have measured and can demonstrate scientifically? Or is it a condition you intuit? Is it really endemic in our society? Lack of accountability is an American characteristic?

Responsibility, accountability, hard work, selflessness. I don't fault the concepts; but when I read the words in certain contexts I get a whiff of moral superiority, an aroma best left in the church pew.

And I'm tired of hearing how the Baby Boomers have proven to be no more than greedy little bastards.

As for the holiness of sex and the nobility of parenthood, please don't make me sigh. We, like the other beasts of the planet, are wired for sex. We reproduce or we disappear. If only qualified good parents were allowed children we'd be a meager species and probably a dolphin would occupy White House.

This is not to say I don't believe an economically healthy, two-parent, conflict-free family is the best environment for child-rearing. What I mean is, I take the world for what it is. Having sex organs and employing them as designed will make you a parent.

"I fuck, therefore I bear children" is a statement of fact.

Designating parenthood a noble calling is a nice gesture. But being a parent just goes with the gig. Most of us take the responsibilty seriously and give it our best shot. Most of us do okay at it. And most kids turn out fairly well, baby-factory projects and carpetbagging welfare frauds notwithstanding.

Erin O'Brien said...

A five word post and look what I started.


Harry Finch said...

It's why we come here, baby.

Erin O'Brien said...

All right, now that I've had some sleep and time to digest all of this, here I am.

Finch and Phil: you two are in a fair fight. Carry on as you see fit.

Crawford. Hm. What do we do about Mr. Kim Crawford?

The only people to be "vilified" (a term that is beginning to grate on me almost as much as "maverick") are Mr. and Mrs. Sarah Palin and John McCain, who showcased her family, particularly the Downs child ("Sarah Palin walks the walk" chimed the delighted Family Research Council and their ilk), like they were objects.

When Bristol's pregnancy broke the news, the entire camp was tripping over themselves to announce no worries, a shotgun wedding is in short order!

Bristol got pregnant round about mid-April 2008. When did her mother know? Did she know when she accepted the nomination? Did that woman KNOW she was about to put an unwed pregnant teen in the national spotlight?

As for your generalizations about the "left," I can only speak for myself. There comes a point when a teen's sexuality is their own business, whether they are celibate or sexually active. This is very delicate territory, very private. Parents and guardians can only do so much. For me, that means offering up understanding, advocacy and good solid information my kid can trust and ask for without retribution.

Of course I have nothing against some young adult's virginity. BUT I SHOULDN'T KNOW ABOUT IT IN THE FIRST PLACE. When a parent urges a kid to wear a "promise ring" it's just another sexual trophy, albeit one of the sickest.

Erin O'Brien said...

Someone in this pretty good write up said of this latest Palin chapter: "you really can't make too much out of it," with which I agree and why I only noted the failed marriage-to-be with a five word post.

philbilly said...

Finch, all good points, I'll get back to ya as soon as I've met some responsibilities, a day at max. Your comments deserve a thoughtful response.

Harry Finch said...

Philbilly - Before you respond bear in mind I recognize that no matter how rational we believe ourselves to be, we come at these things with a perspective based on personal experience and baggage. Where you come from is likely not my neck of the woods. You may think I'm making excuses for irresponsible behavior, and to a degree you are correct: I'm tired, I'm weary, and I've given up on humanity.

I also think that some of us who comment here (me particularly) enjoy trying to prove how sharp we are. It's a sad character trait.

The Declaration of Independence had it right when it said we're all created equal. I haven't met anyone yet who isn't a jackass to some degree. If I possess any wisdom it lies in the awareness I'm the biggest jackass on the farm.

Kirk Jusko said...

Two points I'd like to make:

1. I abstained as a teenager, but you kind of have to when the girl says no.

2. I can assure you dysfunctional families were around long before the 1960s. Ban them, and you'll just drive them underground.

Anonymous said...

If there is a god I fervently pray that he whisk Velociman from his comfortable existence and dump his silly white ass in the slums of Haiti or Calcutta to be eaten by poor people so they have the strength to fuck.


philbilly said...

Finch; On personal responsibility; I have an unusual, for a middle class white guy anyway, perspective on responsibility.

I came from a two parent home where I got equal parts praise and punishment. Even then I knew my folks were sacrificing for me and my brothers. When we were around 14, they began vocally preparing us for the door at 18. Not because it didn't break their hearts to see us go, we knew very clearly we were loved, but they would not inflict parasites on their peers.

No one did then, even in the low income community, where the odds were already stacked against minority parents. Whites who historically disavow the reality of post-reconstruction through Jim Crow as a legacy impediment to success are deluded. And don't forget the wealth of this nation was in great part built on a violent slave system that resulted in a multi-generational psychological displacement visited upon young black males in particular. When you celebrate your family tree, think of the rend in the fabric of Black American history. And yet we have moved forward, and all other issues aside, the election of Obama is a psychological victory.

After living in White America, I spent many years in the inner city, and I know which way the bullshit blows. The social programs enacted in the 60's were necessary, and for the most part, successful. Except, what has happened in the last 25 years or so?

A culture of greed and instant gratification, endemic in the sense it is a disease which sustains itself, has developed in our nation as consumerism supplanted self-reliance as an economic model. For all the harm it does to the middle class, it has a devastating effect in low-income communities. When goals are unrealistic and expectations the result of fantasy, and the horizon is obscured by ignorance, hopelessness breeds a fertile ground for vice and despair. The parasitic nature of humans at their worst is manifested.

So you ask me what evidence I have of an abdication of responsibility?

Urban governments that game the system to preserve their feifdoms, in effect overlords of a culture of dependence that punishes self-reliance and rewards blind ignorance.

School systems that overpay union leaders and boards and administrators and consultants, and underpay the real high value employees, the teachers.

Slumlords that reward dopeboys who pay rent in 5's and 20's and treat legitimate tenants like shit, with the full support of bribe sucking housing inspectors.

Assholes like Death Row Records parade of thugs profiting from pounding poison into the ears of kids who don't have a chance.

An endless string of useless non-profits, that shelter directors from any tangible deliverables, and of course paying taxes.

Corporate boards that decide that ripping the jobs out of a community, after the company was built by the first generations of inner-city employees, is creating shareholder value by off-shoring.

A justice system that is so fucked up it can only be said that you are innocent provided you can afford an attorney who is not themselves a total fuckup. Once an inner city kid is in that system, they're fucked. And yet, some pull through, from the inside, from something instilled in them, by a grandmother in many cases.

And so we get back to the responsibility of the parents. "We, like the other beasts of the planet, are wired for sex." Indeed.
Consider a feral cat, who goes back into a burning house repeatedly to remove her kittens. In the natural world, mothers fight to the death to protect their offspring, and yet at the appropriate time, boot them from the nest. Human mothers sit their kids in front of the Springer Show while they get high in the kitchen.
Or let them live in the basement till they're 35. So your animal kingdom analogy does not hold water.

If you are leery of organized religion, we are in agreement. The Catholic Church abdicated many years ago. There was a time when priests carried baseball bats to clear the thugs off of street corners, now the church harbors sexual predators and holocaust deniers.

I'm also leery of atheists.

If you've given up on humanity, we have no dialogue. Too many good people still try for any of us to give up.

Consider the Boomers. Many served in Vietnam, a conflict that in my view, was not a failure. The murderous Sino-Soviet expansion was cut off at the knees, and Vietnam is emerging as an economic powerhouse.
Had Johnson and MacNamara, the Cheney and Rumsfeld of the day, not so totally fucked up and misspent millions of lives, they'd have been there sooner.

Boomers and Cuspers are, however, inseparable from the culture of consumption which has run its course, and now we have a responsibility to realign our goals and strategies to create a new economy.

That cannot be accomplished with millions of children twisting in the wind from ignorance and abandonment.

Anonymous said...


You write well.

As a guy who came of age in the The Vietnam era I wonder if you might explain your claim that the war "cut the murderous Sino-Soviet regime off at the knees."
You probably can guess that I think that is poppycock.


Harry Finch said...

My animal analogy doesn't hold water because it's not an analogy. We are animals. We have a sex urge. That sex urge perpetuates our species.

Anecdotal evidence does not demonstrate a norm.

I haven't given up on humanity so much as lost my desire to cure its ills. I lack the conviction I am a qualified doctor. Phil, you seem pretty sure of yourself.

It may be it takes a monster to slay a monster. I'm not up to the job.

Not HUH? Uh-Huh! said...

How can you say Vietnam was a success? We left under fire in disgrace (Remember Siagon) and the counrty is still divided with North Vietman still a vehemently Communist and agianst the U.S. and the West. The same with Korea. Soon to be Iraq!

(S)wine said...

did someone mention whisky and a book? and,,,who is this person everyone's got their knickers in knots over?

Harry Finch said...

Alert! Warning! Animal Analogy Ahead!

First, though, news from Vermont: the sap is running. My neighbor and I greeted one another this afternoon with "The sap's sure running today." I only mention this to illustrate why I don't get worked up over teenage pregnancies. I live where the locals get excited over the start of maple-sugaring season.

Now let us consider the beaver, a particularly interesting animal as it is one of the few mammals to mate for life. The beaver colony is the family unit. While a peaceful creature, the beaver will attack intruding (non-family/colony) beavers. The colony consists of the parents and two separate litters. A litter may be two to eight pups, depending on the size and health of the beaver pond. At age two, the beaver leaves his home pond to found a new colony. This is not a moral decision; it is not a matter of exercising personal responsibility. The issue is "economic": the pond can support only so many beavers. The pond is not big enough. The young beaver may travel ten miles searching for an available and suitable habitat. He is at his most vulnerable during this journey; the price of failure is death.

I recognize the gaps in my beaver-knowledge. I need to bone-up on beavers. I should get all my beaver-facts straight.

Erin O'Brien said...

This comment section is freaking me out.

We've got all the obvious stuff with an order of Saigon. Then RJ tried to feed Crawford to the Haitians and to top it all off, Finch shows up with a bunch of beavers.

philbilly said...

The conflict in Vietnam, like Iraq was over oil. In this case, Indonesian reserves. In response to Finch's lament about Boomers, I claim that the sacrifice of GI's, the military and political debacle that was US involvement in Vietnam drove a stake deeper into the Sino-Soviet rift. Oil is the centerpiece of the consumption model. High oil prices serve despotic regimes. Demand price elasticity is necessary in the face of supply constraints. Americans consume 25% of the world's oil with 6% of the population. Entitlement drives our assumption that we "deserve" this.
The world is changing and fast. I'd rather trade GDP with the Asiatics than missiles and blood.

Finch, I knew you were at least suburban from the lassez-faire attitude on how much this nation is suffering. Things are good in the great expanses. Vermont is a little slice of heaven. I'm telling you that a change is in the wind.

I am sure of myself, believe it. When sailing on Lake Erie, you learn to read the wind.

Ohio, too, has ass-kicking maple syrup and nice furry beavers.

Harry Finch said...

Well, Phil, that's an interesting application of laissez-faire, although I guess as a literal translation it's apt, at least to your thinking. I am not, however, insensitive to the country's problems. Resigned, perhaps, but not insenstive; and resignation may be one of the debilities of aging.

Just so you know, it's rural, not suburban.

I thought by mentioning running sap I was good-naturedly conceding that I am poorly equipped to intelligently discuss matters outside my personal experience. But you deftly turned it into a way of insulting me. And in a sort of threatening manner. Well done.

"I am sure of myself, believe it. When sailing on Lake Erie, you learn to read the wind."

Spoken with the conviction of a Lenin, a Trotsky, a Mao, a Pol Pot. God help us.

This conversation has turned nasty, so I apologize to Ms OB for perhaps driving it that direction. This is not my blog and it is not appropriate to carry on as we are. Feel free to have the last word; I am sure you will enjoy that. I am done.

philbilly said...

Wow, way to dish it out and not take it, bro.

Relax, we got it covered.

jonas said...

Time to hug it out, fellas.

I suggest that for no other reason that it makes me laff.

VideoDude said...

I'm from Ohio. I like FURRY BEAVERS!

philbilly said...

mmmmmmmmmmmm, Beavers!

I'll hug if you'll hug, fellow jackass.

Wasn't slamming Vermont, been a fan ever since I read a plaque about the Green Mountain Boys as a wee jackass visiting Fort Ticonderoga.

Hmmm, maple syrup on a beaver....

jonas said...

The Green Mountain Boys never get enough press. Got Washington his cannons for the defense of Boston. That, uh, kinda mattered. Despite the fact that they took them from what was a largely undefended still mattered. Of course, HF comes from the other side of the Lake...the side that lost.

philbilly said...

Jonas, I see you are a Brother of the Jackass as well. Welcome, have some beaver and syrup.

jonas said...

I have brothers that are jackasses, for certain. As a bit of disclosure, HF and I go way back ("way" being more or less relative). Even if I now find myself south of the Manson-Nixon line, home is North, and HF maintains the fort whilst I'm away.

Although my presence was requested in this little flareup, I've avoided any serious input because things seemed to be pretty well covered. Unfortunately, people have their "sides" and like to stick to them. As if to suggest, if it weren't for them, we'd all be some unholy shade of purple.

But, I do agree with HF. He makes a point I've argued (for better or worse...usually the later) for years: we are animals. Highly evolved ( with reason from above) as we are, the fact that we try to rationalize our way out of billions of years of evolutionary DNA is, well...absurd. We try, and are surprised when we fail. That alone should keep us laughing for eternity. We are, in no uncertain terms, ridiculous. But, good thing, otherwise I'd have no reason to be working on this PhD.

That aside, I remain optimistic: we do get better. We're just impatient. Too us this long to get this far. If we just let our hubris take a 2-week vacation from time to time, we'd prolly fair a bit better. Hell, even the Bible spends hundreds of pages pointing out how we get in our own way. They knew it then. We should remember it now. There's nothing wrong with our ambition to do things better. To improve. To...I dare say...evolve. But the finger pointing happens when I say you didn't evolve fast enough, or are holding back some collective evolution. You're to blame...not me. I don't screw up. I'm really, truly different from you.

Or...not. I'm just saying, its too bad Pallin's kid got pregnant. That sucks...for alot of people. Its too bad Pallin et al. chose a moral high-road argument with her kid seemingly disproving the whole ideal. Its too bad people want to use her to make a political point. It's even more too bad that we continue to harp on this. We ALL have better things to do.

That's all. I have papers to grade.

Beaver, syrup, and Ethan Allen.

philbilly said...

Well said, Jonas.

We are best served by recognizing and acknowledging our inability to fully realize our animal selves. We are not highly evolved, we operate at a disadvantage to our furry brethren, in that we are cursed with reason, will and intellect. We kill and fuck and consume for reasons and outcomes other than survival and territory, we insulate ourselves from nature and isolate ourselves from its rhythms.

And yet we do evolve, ever so slowly.

Somehow, we are the stewards of this rock.

Man as toolmaker, seeker of knowledge, explorer, why, I haven't a clue.

Ethan Allen does make some damn fine furniture.

Manson-Nixon line, that's a hoot.

jonas said...

We're now speaking the same language.

As for I'm insulted:

He lived his last two year about a mile (less?) from my front door. I won't bore you with trivia americana, but I've got family ties to the period, and the guy.
Blah blah blah...but furniture, I will not abide.

Do you think if dolphins had figured out the fermentation process, we'd still think they're so smart? I'm just sayin...

jonas said...

Speaking of animals...
Yes yes, they're great cuz they live in harmony with nature. Well, and I would to, if we had no choice. Free will makes our gig much harder. That is, of course, because we're conscious of it. A bit tautological, I know. (That's actually a pun I didn't mean to make...Descartes would be proud).

Anyway, just saying...comparing non-hominid animals to other animals is a bit of a non-starter. Just cant be done reasonably...literally or figuratively.

I'm too tired and behind to be contemplating these things. At least, not without booze.

philbilly said...

Keerist man, 1 am in the morning, you invoke Descartes, and I'm fresh out of ice cubes. Those delicious exponentiated rectangles of icy linear precision.

Point taken on dissing Allen, just a lame attempt at humor, it's a jackass thing.

jonas said...

Oh, I know. I just always takes such moments to point to the big man and pimp some VT history. You should try to read thru 'Reason' might like it. I say 'try' only because its old and weird.

Nice ice cubery there, tho.

Erin O'Brien said...

I love it when it gets crazy in the comment section. Just about everything is allowed. Hijack the topic, post links, disagree--have at it. All I ask is that we keep it civil. I want this to be a place where people love to jump into the bedlam/fray/laff-fest. I don't want anyone to feel like they're being attacked here.

Finch, you and I go a little ways back by now. Very few writers garner my respect the way you do. I am interested in your every opinion about what goes on here.

Phil, I do not know you. We've never had an off-line discussion, but your comments fascinate me at every turn. Please keep coming back.

Both of you guys have left comments here on the Owner's Manual that have made tears of laughter squeeze from my eyes.

I need you guys. I need all of the commenters to make this site what it is. Without you, I'm just a jackass braying alone in a room (some might argue that I am that in any event.)



Now just one more note: That Levi kid was just on ABC's morning show. The "interview" was conducted from the front seat of his pick-up (the reporter stood outside), kid had on a frayed camo flex fit hat. So young.

The maternal instinct is very animalistic and very lofty in turn. I sure waxed tender when I watched that kid stumble over his words this morning.

I just wish him luck. Same goes for Bristol and that little baby. I really just wish them all the best. So young

Anonymous said...

Dear Philbilly,



VideoDude said...

My buddy has a saying when discussing Humankind: "We are Chimps with attitude and clothes."

philbilly said...

My point exactly.


I'm considering printing it out and reading it on one of my electronics-free sojourns into the woods this summer, it looks very cool for the time it was written.

Or I may just drink beer and smoke cigars by the fire until I fall off my milk carton, like last summer. Erf.

Anonymous said...

And Jonas,
Had dolphins developed finely crafted microbrews, they would surely be in the White House.

jonas said...

Enjoy the read. I've yet to attempt it. But have a plan for it...long term pipedream. Its a secret.

You're an optimist, but there's certainly nothing wrong with that.

philbilly said...


Sounds like an episode of "America's Next Top Primate."

I'm too sexy for my genes.