Tuesday, September 15, 2009

What he said

25 comments:

dean said...

No one does righteous outrage as well as Olbermann.

B.E. Earl said...

And the conservatives hate him so. :)

Big Mark 243 said...

'Stupid Panels' ... perhaps we should have them, because 'stupid' isn't the same as being dumb.

I missed this ... thanks for posting.

Al The Retired Army Guy said...

This doesn't have anything to do with Olbermann, but it was too good not to share ... hilarious if you ask me ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4-vEwD_7Hk

Al
TRAG

P.S. It pretty much sums up Vermont for me .... Jonas, flame away!

Jonas said...

Oh Al....

I'm not so easily baited. I was home this weekend for....GASP....a gay wedding.

As I sat there, enjoying the majesty and serenity of the Green Mountains as the WEDDING progressed (at the Trapp Family Lodge...the place the von Trapps [yes, those von Trapps] own...you know, when they escaped the insane Right of Hitler), I thought "wow, these queers are really bringing about the Apocalypse".

Oh wait, no I didn't. I thought, it's nice to be from a place where open-mindedness is valued, and where good things do come from such open-mindedness. You know, crazy good things like "equality." Vermont has a long history of such madness: like, say, abolishing slavery before we were even a state.

So, continue to bemoan Vermont. Continue to think something's inherently wrong there. Frankly, I don't give a shit. While its not perfect and I disagree with lots of the politics there, I'm proud to be from a place that knows the difference between right and wrong.

Al The Retired Army Guy said...

Jonas,

Uh, so I struck a nerve? I just thought it was funny. And it does sum up Vermont for me personally, but perhaps not for others. So be it.

BTW, I had to travel 30 miles just to get my oil changed today. Montpelier doesn't have a Jiffy Lube (I've used them for years, and they have all the records on my vehicle). Yep, that's what I call a modern state capital.

I know about the Trapp Family Lodge. Some of my instructors worked there. And I agree that the Green Mountains are beautiful.

Open mindedness is valued in Vermont? Only if you agree with the established open mindedness. Don't agree with the liberal politics (e.g., open mindedness)? You're an outcast, a heretic, the devil. That's been my experience anyway.

As I've said before, I can only go from what I've experienced here. I'm looking for a positive experience, trust me. I love the produce, the cheese, syrup, sustainable agriculture, etc. It's the in-your-face politics I can't countenance. And it is truly in your face here as I'm sure even you'd admit. Granted, I am equally in their faces (with my t-shirts) - but it's in response to what I perceive as a less than open-minded reception of alternative viewpoints. Again, I base this on my experiences here - I've got nothing else to go on thus yet.

I am on the record as being against gay marriage. This being said, it is legal in Vermont. Nothing I can do about that. I don't think that it brings about the Apocalypse as you allude to, but I don't agree with it for any number of reasons. This being said, the people of Vermont made it legal - so therefore it is the law. Until the law is changed, the people of Vermont have no choice but to abide by it. And that's as it should be, I think in a republic.

A place that knows the difference between right and wrong? Doesn't sound like "tolerance" or "open mindedness" to me. By saying that the folks here know the the difference between right and wrong, you're inferring that there is only one logical position to take on any number of issues. That doesn't sound open minded to me - it sounds like there is only one position to take, and if you don't adopt it you're wrong. That's what I've experienced here, anyway.

On a positive note, I'm hoping my insurance company will help me recoup some of the money I lost when my stuff was stolen from the storage place in Essex. About $2K or more worth from my estimation.

Al
TRAG

Once known as The Badger said...

This will go down in history as the ERA OF STUPID. Sorry, Army guy. We're going down in flames and all the leadership can think of to do is cry "You lie". I'm retiring in Canada.

Jonas said...

No Al, not one way. But, denying rights is NOT the way. Sorry. Strike that, I'm not sorry. Not about that. They're rights, and they're guaranteed. If you feel like being wishywashy on interpreting those, feel free. Got plenty of rope, enjoy.

Your description of Vermont is the only only like it I've ever heard. And I know alot of people. So, should I interpret your experiences as definitive above and beyond those I know, including my own? Methinks not. What sticks out in the equation is you. Kinda hafta wonder what one does, says, or exudes to enjoy such an experience.

I've lived in CO and now in VA. Generally conservative places. Granted, I happen to live in the liberal parts (not for the politics, mind you). That said, despite all the politics and attitudes in both places I find terrible, I've never experienced anything like what you talk about. So, should I assume that CO and VA are truly more tolerant than VT? Not in a million f'in years. They have "Lee/Jackson Day" down here fer chrissake.

Jonas said...

Al, the only nerve you touched is the one that balks at a constant barrage of crap leveled at my home.

Al The Retired Army Guy said...

No Al, not one way. But, denying rights is NOT the way. Sorry. Strike that, I'm not sorry. Not about that. They're rights, and they're guaranteed. If you feel like being wishywashy on interpreting those, feel free. Got plenty of rope, enjoy.

Huh?

"Your description of Vermont is the only only like it I've ever heard."

Probably because no one has described it that way.

"And I know alot of people."

As do I.

"So, should I interpret your experiences as definitive above and beyond those I know, including my own? Methinks not. What sticks out in the equation is you."

Of course. Don't blame anything on the collective, blame it on the individual. Very convenient if not specious.

"Kinda hafta wonder what one does, says, or exudes to enjoy such an experience."

Uh, I showed up?

"I've lived in CO and now in VA. Generally conservative places. Granted, I happen to live in the liberal parts"

Gee, I'm shocked. BTW, I've lived in NC, VA, OH, GA, TX, FL etc. I've been to OK, CA, WA, WI, TN, KY, WV, SC, HI, AL, LA, MO, MS, NY, PA, .. Lots of differing political opinions in each place.

(not for the politics, mind you). That said, despite all the politics and attitudes in both places I find terrible, I've never experienced anything like what you talk about. So, should I assume that CO and VA are truly more tolerant than VT? Not in a million f'in years. They have "Lee/Jackson Day" down here fer chrissake.

Lee/Jackson - by definition "losers."

Al

Erin O'Brien said...

Al.

Trust me. When you poke people in a repetitive, irritating way, you are inflating a baddie cloud around you. At least that's my experience, anyway. Trust me. I've seen plenty of people with baddie clouds and, trust me, it ain't pretty. At least that's my experience, anyway.

Love,

Erin

jonas said...

Specious? Al, I have WAY more experience in Vermont, around Vermont, and with and around people from and who have moved to Vermont. Again, yours is the only description like it I've come across. You've spent numerous posts trying to convince people how bad Vermont is, based solely on YOUR experiences. Somehow the individual, in this case, is more accurate than "collective" (as you less than subtly put it)?

Sorry, in this case, you're the statistical outlier. Doesn't mean these things haven't happened to you, doesn't mean they haven't been true for you. Just means your conclusion doesn't fit the historical record.

As for all those places you've lived? Predominantly and historically Red States. So, not surprising you've felt more comfortable there. Public opinion was more in line with your own. Not sure of your point.

"Lee/Jackson - by definition "losers."" Seriously? That's your comment for a society that celebrates those who defended slave culture through the killing of fellow Americans? Jesus Al, I want to give you the benefit of the doubt on this one, I really do....

Erin O'Brien said...

Al, see what I mean about your baddie cloud?

jonas said...

Al, let me try this another way:

Let's say you decide to eat dinner at a French restaurant. Now, you've heard the food is good, but the atmosphere could use some work. Also, you happen to be a bigger fan of, I dunno...lets say, Southern cuisine.

So, you go eat. As told, the food was pretty good, but expensive, the waitstaff was crap, the atmosphere was grating, the parking lot was too small (that ones just for you). All in all, despite the food, its just not a place to which you'd go back in any hurry.

The next day, you decide you review it for an online review site. You mention all the above experiences. However, you notice that most of the reviews are positive. Some people don't even mention the parking. Some people say the service was actually the best they've had. Other do mention the high prices, but follow by saying its some of the most delicious food they'd ever had. And yet others mention they come back time and time again because of the consistent quality of the entire experience.

One day, I happen upon the reviews and need to make a decision about where to eat. Which ones of these should I believe? My sense is that most readers of the reviews would chalk yours up to one guy, one experiences = not the norm.

Anonymous said...

Since I have never set foot in Vermont the minor spat above made me a bit curious.
Knowing WEKIPEDIA is never wrong, I find it very interesting reading. Seems like Vermont really likes white folk. It also seems more than a few people are not real happy about working there. Then again I might be jumping to conclusions confused with facts. Seems like it would be a nice state to visit but not real sure I want to live there.
Vermont's population is:
• 51.0% female
• 49.0% male
Among the 50 states and the District of Columbia, Vermont ranks:
• 2nd highest proportion of Whites
• 2nd oldest median age[28]
• 41st highest proportion of Asians
• 49th highest proportion of Hispanics
• 48th highest proportion of Blacks
• 29th highest proportion of Native Americans
• 39th highest proportion of people of mixed race
• 28th highest proportion of males
• 24th highest proportion of females

• As of 2006, there were 305,000 workers in Vermont. 11% of these are unionized.[85][86] A 2007 survey claimed that Vermonters were the least satisfied with their job in the nation and were the most likely to be making plans to leave.[87]

I know it doesn't settle anything but its always nice to check facts against opinions.


James Old Guy ( Smith) real name

Erin O'Brien said...

Al sent me a bottle of the finest maple syrup I ever tasted that came from Vermont, which is all I can say about the place.

Al The Retired Army Guy said...

Jonas,

Folks can take what I have to say about Vermont or any number of things any way they want. You'll note that most of the time I use the phrases "in my opinion" or "in my experience" or "for me" when commenting on Vermont and other things. In this sense, I'm saying that it's my opinion and should be taken as such. If someone wants to agree with me, fine. If someone wishes to disagree with me, fine as well. Their choice.

Your choice of a restaurant analogy doesn't change the fact that my experiences here formed my opinions of the place. Others may have had different experiences, and relate them to others in either a positive or negative light dependent on what they experienced at the time. Mine have been particularly negative, and that's what I base my opinion of Vermont on. Again, I'm still looking for a positive one, and I'm hopeful I'll find it before I leave here for good.

BTW, I'm not trying to convince anyone that Vermont is bad - only saying it is bad for me. Others can look at my commentary as an attempt to convince or influence, but it honestly is not. People have to make up their minds for themselves, so I recommend they come and live here for a while or at least spend a good amount of time here before forming an opinion.

As to living in "red states," I would hardly call North Carolina a red state - where I live in Fayetteville, for example, is largely democratic. All the folks I was involved with in trying to bring a co-op to the area were staunch liberals/democrats. And I didn't have much of a choice where I lived - as we said in the Army, home is where you hang your Kevlar.

As to Jackson-Lee, I said "losers" because the south lost the civil war. It was in this sense I made the reference.

And Erin is right - they make some fine syrup here.

Al
TRAG

jonas said...

James:

Vermont has always been predominantly white. All sorts of reasons for that. And yes, people leave because the economy isn't great. Never has been. Vermont is cold, rugged, and small. If people want that, come on in, give it a try. If not, Vermont's prolly not the place for them.

Knowing nothing about unions (other than one having attempted to recruit me, and the US automakers havent done well since....well, its been a while now), not sure what 11% means, or how it is even relevant, other than to suggest something political.

Al, yes, I notice you use "in my opinion." And, I think after your 14th rant on Vermont, we understand your opinion. Having an opinion doesn't mean everyone cares to hear about it. Somethings are best left alone, after the 2nd or 3rd rant.

As for NC:
"Except for regional son Jimmy Carter's election in 1976, North Carolina voted Republican in every presidential election from 1968 to 2004." I'll grant you that "At the state level, however, the Democrats still control most of the elected offices, and as large numbers of out-of-state residents moved to the state in the 1990s and 2000's the Republican dominance in presidential elections has eroded."

Vermont, on the other hand, has had a Rep. gov. for YEARS, but still votes Blue nationally.

Mr. Baddie Cloud said...

Jonas,

Didn't know I was ranting. Thanks for the info.

From now on, I'll simply say "Vermont - you know how I feel" and leave it at that.

Mr. Baddie Cloud
Or ...
The Artist Formerly Known as Al The Retired Army Guy

Anonymous said...

Can we talk about Rhode Island now?






James Old Guy

Erin O'Brien said...

Al, you're baddie cloud just faded a whole bunch.

jonas said...

Al,

From Websters:

* Pronunciation: \ˈrant\
* Function: verb
* Etymology: obsolete Dutch ranten, randen
* Date: 1601

intransitive verb 1 : to talk in a noisy, excited, or declamatory manner
2 : to scold vehemently


Yeah, I think that covers it.

Mr. Baddie Cloud said...

Wow. Now I'm being lectured to on the meaning of words. So, in the interest of equal time ....

Again, from Websters ...


Main Entry: 1lec·ture
Pronunciation: \ˈlek-chər, -shər\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, act of reading, from Late Latin lectura, from Latin lectus, past participle of legere
Date: 15th century
1 : a discourse given before an audience or class especially for instruction
2 : a formal reproof

— lec·ture·ship \-ˌship\ noun

Main Entry: pomp·ous
Pronunciation: \ˈpäm-pəs\
Function: adjective
Date: 15th century
1 : excessively elevated or ornate
2 : having or exhibiting self-importance : arrogant 3 : relating to or suggestive of pomp : magnificent

— pomp·ous·ly adverb

— pomp·ous·ness noun

I too, think that about covers it

Mr. Baddie Cloud

jonas said...

Nice try Al. But suggesting, more than once, that Vermont should be paved over (just because YOU have had a rough go of things) is going to take the pompousness award in all this.

Lecture over.

Mr. Baddie Cloud said...

Thanks, Jonas. I feel much better now. Really.

Basically, I want it paved over so I can have a place to park. For that matter, everyone else here would have a place to park too. I'm sure they'd be grateful.

Vermont - you know how I feel.

Al
Mr. Baddie Cloud