Sunday, November 04, 2012

Romneyland


A prediction if Mittens makes it into the White House:

Romney's Massachusetts health care reform, which he rarely mentioned during the campaign, will suddenly start getting a lot of airtime. Repealing Obamacare (the ACA) will quickly--very quickly--dissolve into changing/amending the ACA. Romney will call it something else, but the individual mandate will remain. He'll add tort reform and some other rightie candy, but it will essentially stay the same.

Don't believe me? The rightie pundits are already weaving this into the dialogue--try Matt Continetti on last Friday's Left Right and Center.

The ACA has always been the Republican dreamboat answer to health care reform. There is no way they will trash it given the chance. Like everything else over the past four years, they were only against it because the black guy was for it.

Obamacare ain't going away no matter what happens on Tuesday, folks.

*  *  *

90 comments:

Joe said...

I think you are right. Some Republicans are against it because it was proposed by a Democrat.

Some of us are against it because we are conservatives and the whole idea goes against the limited government we envision.

Skin color has NOTHING to do with it. That accusation is insulting.

Kalei's Best Friend said...

I love how you tell it like it is!. And that's the bottom line "they were only against it because the black guy was for it." In our major paper one writer said that the poll showed a higher percentage against blacks after Obama was in office... Racism and ignorance is alive in America, for sure!.

Anonymous said...

"Skin color has NOTHING to do with it. That accusation is insulting."-Joe. In the jargon of this here silly season I'd say it's 99% likely that you're wrong Joe. Homemade sign seen on auto as I was driving back from S. Alabama about 3 weeks ago:"Obama is an Idiot, A liar and a Muslim sympathizer." Not long after I saw that I passed the huge flag pole with the massive Stars and Bars that flies near I-65 right outside Montgomery.
BTW, in the interest of equal time...Maybe Mitt will repeal the Patriot Act...Maybe they will close Guantanamo...Maybe they'll reenact Glass-Steagal...HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...
Jill Stein 2012.

Randy Johnson

Joe said...

You know it took a whole bunch of white people to elect Obama to office in 2008. Those people did not wake up cracker a couple of years later, ready to dust off the KKK robes.

How many Democratic Congressmen lost their seats in 2010? Nearly every one of them was WHITE. That does not fit into your "they hate him 'cause he is black" fantasy very well. Maybe it is all about the policy?

John Venlet said...

Erin, while I think your analysis of the healthcare issue (ACA) is in all likelihood correct, I agree with Joe that your allusion to the reason for conservatives' being against national healthcare is because Obama is black, is not only insulting, but an illusion.

Bill said...

The guilty white people syndrome is alive and well. So is bigotry. New racists? No.

Anonymous said...

Regardless of who wins the Presidency just take a look at the Electoral Map on Weds. The Confederacy is alive and well. But, of course, the war wasn't about slavery right?

It's a waste of time to debate this but you righties are truly a "Lost Cause."


Randy Johnson

Joe said...

As I learned my history, Indiana was a Northern State. We sent more troops per capita than any state except NY to fight for the Union.

You can count (literally) on one hand the number of times Indiana failed to go Republican since 1856. So the whole state is filled with bigots? The logic fails to hold up under scrutiny. Likewise for Kansas, Utah, The Dakotas, Montana, Alaska, Arizona, Idaho, Most of Illinois, and Ohio (outside of the urban centers). West Virginia was separated because of anti-alavery views.

Did Carter get booted because he was black or over his liberal policies? Did Kerry lose over his skin color or his policies? Dukakis? Make all of the excuses you want, but more than 50% of Americans remain steadfastly opposed to the ACA. Is it really your argument over half of the country is racist? If so, segregation would be rolled back into place next week.

Are there bigots? Sure. Heck some people vote for Obama based on his skin color is that racism against Romney?

Most of us do not care about pigmentation. We vote based on policy. Funny, if race was so important ot conservatives, wouldn't we be the ones bringing up all of the time?

Anonymous said...

"Funny, if race was so important ot conservatives, wouldn't we be the ones bringing up all of the time?"-Joe.

Illegal immigration.

Tell you what Joe. Next election cycle come on down here to Tennessee and we'll do voter registration work for the NAACP. Better yet, lets get a couple black guys and we'll all dress up in military surplus camouflage and go stand outside a predominately conservative polling place on Tuesday and see who screams about voter intimidation. Then we'll scrutinize your data.

Randy Johnson

Oh, and yes, I'm aware some of the largest Klan rallies in US History took place in Indiana.

Erin O'Brien said...

Joe, GOP leaders such as Gingrich with his "Kenyan anti-colonial worldview" bullshit have nurtured the race factor with Obama from the beginning.

Bill said...

I think Obama will win my state, CA, by at least 15 points. I'm thankful for states like Ohio, Wisconsin, Michigan, who make it possible for Romney to win. I'm guessing that 6 of the 8 families on my cul de sac will vote for Obama. Only 2 racist families. Of course we aren't that obvious. We also fake them out by having token minority family members.

Joe said...

Yes, I get it now. Those ignorant redneck klanner Hoosiers who, you know, actually voted for Obama in 2008 -- giving a Democrat the electoral votes in violation of nearly 150 years of tradition -- woke up sometime in early 2009 and said "Holy Shit! I done voted for a black man. I ain't gonna allow that to happen again."

Yes, that makes perfect sense. We were unaware he was black since the movin' picture box had not come here yet. Thank you fer settin' me straight.

I am still confused how the complete repudiation of Democrat policies in 2010 came about? I am sure it was all about race somehow... damn racists won even in Liberal Massachusetts...But it sure was not about people against the ACA.

Voters could never actually be against liberal policies. They must be too dumb, or too white, too something.

Anonymous said...

"Voters could never actually be against liberal policies. They must be too dumb, or too white, too something."-Joe

Return to the premise of the post. BHO's policies are not liberal. Obama is a neoliberal lapdog of Wall Street. (Scrutinize the data) Ergo there must be some other reason for the opposition

Now I'm going to go watch the replay of the last 1:40 of last nights Alabama-LSU game on endless loop.

Randy Johnson

Joe said...

as for trotting out the old Newt bogeyman. Did it occur to you there is a reason he has not been elected -- by Republicans or otherwise -- fr a decade and a half?

Erin O'Brien said...

Joe: Gingrich was a serious GOP presidential candidate. Even Romney chimed in with a birther joke in August. McConnell's grudgingly reluctant "I take him at his word" comment regarding Obama's birth certificate was another thinly veiled reference that nurtures the idea that Obama is FOREIGN and DIFFERENT and BLACK.

Do I think Gingrich or any of the rest of them are actually racist? I have no idea, but I am certain they use racism as a tool to influence the racist contingent out there.

Gents, I am predicting that the Washington GOP machine will behind "Obamacare" if Obama is no long in the picture.

Since we're here, I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me why Romney thought his HCR was wonderful for the people of MASS but not for the rest of us. Anyone?



Bill said...

"Ergo there must be some other reason for the opposition"
7.9% unemployment
49million on food stamps.
16 trillion debt
25 million unemployed
$4,700 less income for the avg. fam
1 in 6 in poverty
I could go on with other "reasons" but the only "black" factor is the unprecedented unemployment rate among blacks.

Racism among blacks and hispanics, however, might just win the day and get a terrible President re elected.

Anonymous said...

@ RJ-If you have never read it, the South Carolina secession ordinance is instructive. Slavery is mentioned somewhat around 200 times. I'm too lazy to look up the exact number. The "State's" right they were concerned about was the right to hold human beings as chattel for use as farm machinery.

@ Joe-Of course, not everybody who opposes Mr Obama does so because of race. But the ranks of individuals for whom race matters have gotten larger, and they've gotten more virulent. And one of the reasons they feel emboldened is some of the rhetoric which has spewed by individuals who ought to know better-conservatives who ARE bringing up race all the time.
Do you believe "food stamp President" wasn't intended to appeal directly to racists? Do you believe that "Kenyan", "Indonesian" and "muslim" aren't intended to appeal directly to racists? Do you really believe Limbaugh calling the First Lady "uppity" wasn't intended to appeal to racists? Do you believe that a Republican congressman from South Carolina, of all places, would shout "You Lie!" at a white President delivering the State of the Union address? Do you really believe that presenting the 'New Black Panthers' as an existential threat to our democracy isn't racist? The New Black Panthers are like eight guys with matching caps, t-shirts and a web page. If they could sing they'd be the next big boy group.

Another point: The "Blacks vote for Obama because Obama is black" line is nonsense.. Mr Obama only ran two percentage points ahead of John Kerry's percentage of the black vote in 2004.

Finally, your assertion that more than 50% of the public want to see the Affordable Care Act repealed? Since the Supreme Court ruling, the polling on this is ALL over the place. I don't really know what to make of it in the aggregate, and up-to-date polling numbers seem to be sparse. One thing that is consistent, however, is that when people are polled on the individual features of the law as opposed to the blanket 'Obamacare', the favorability of many provisions of the law go way up.

Gotta go. Ringing doorbells for the President and Senator Brown today.

MR

Anonymous said...

One more time, for emphasis:

Mr Obama only ran TWO percentage points ahead of John Kerry's figure for the African-American vote. The figures were somewhat around 95% vs 93%,
That's TWO points, Billy boy. Twoooo points. Uno, dos.

Erin O'Brien said...

MR +1

Bill said...

Most blacks vote dem for sure. There are plenty of well known, successful blacks who say they vote Obama because of race. A few percentage points is huge if the networks are correct. Just out of curiosity, have any of you ever needed someone to knock on your door or call you to remind you to vote? I know. Both parties do it.

Anonymous said...

Brown is the new black.

I miss the Cold War. I could be suspected of being a Commie but no one thinks I'm an Islamic radical.

RJ

Erin O'Brien said...

Wonder what the demographic breakdown was for Allen West supporters.

Erin O'Brien said...

A street-level report on early voting in Cleveland from CLE journalist Anastasia Pantsios as quoted from her Facebook page.

Nov. 4, 2012: Today was incredible at the early voting room at the Cuyahoga County Board of Elections. We voted 2,500 people! Down in the ballot room, we could hear the singing and chanting of the people in line outside, who snaked around the building, down Chester and all the way to the off ramp of the Inner Belt at one point. We had huge days yesterday and Friday too, and are expecting another tomorrow when we reopen for voting from 8 a.m. to 2 p.m.

Michael Lawless said...

Wait...! There's a black man in the white house??

Anonymous said...

"Wonder what the demographic breakdown was for Allen West supporters?" EO'B

Have a friend in Jupiter, FL in his district. Huge turnout among retired golfers and Cuban Nat'ls who still think we should nuke Castro.

RJ's EZ Electoral Math: Obama wins Ohio, Wisconsin, Nevada= Game over. Romney HAS TO HAVE Florida AND Virginia. I think BHO wins Virginia. Everyone can go to bed early.

Have a nice day.

RJ

twinklysparkles said...

White men debating whether racism toward African Americans exists. Same old, same old.


Institutionalized racism is alive and well and I agree with everything Erin says here about the GOP using race to stir the [ignorant] passions of the Tea Party and whatever has become of the former GOP.

After these kinds of comments of mine, someone inevitably calls me out, but guess what? I'm quite happy in my hidey-hole of the great [blue] Commonwealth of Massachusetts. These are just opinions and I feel no need to back anything up. And I voted early because I am in one of the spots where the Romneys have one of their homes, La Jolla.

Now boys, tell me what to do with my uterus.

Bill said...

Twinks. I like your opinions, even without backup. And, I'm glad you and your uterus voted.

Joe said...

Exactly Twinks, it is just opinion Everyone should have one. Me, I don't like being called a racist without basis in fact. No one knows my mind.

Here is a position. Why draw the line at the uterus? Those who want to be in charge should stay out of my stomach and lungs. I should have all of the sugary soda I want. Ditto trans fats. Cigars. Greasy popcorn with fake butter. bacon. bacon wrapped pork chops. All with salt. Lots of salt. And I don't want to be told to wear a seatbelt or helmet. Surely you agree all of our bodies should be government exempt?

twinklysparkles said...

I do want the gov't involved in exactly these kinds of things, Joe. You are living in the wrong country if you want gov't out of your life, I see that.

If you think it's "free" as to who decides about the sugary sodas, that's an illusion, too. It's all about money. You think Monsanto doesn't control what seeds grow where, crops, farming. It's only getting worse, they control the third world, who can grow what crops. It's fucking evil.
You think Monsanto doesn't control the corn industry? Maybe you know the facts, but true anarchy (lack of government) will never exist here as it's a democracy and not part of the plan. But the taking over of our country by the military-industrial complex is beyond the pale. It is then that I think it doesn't matter who's in the WH, but I know better in my heart.

Have you read the first chapter of Michael Pollan's "Omnivore's Dilemma?" It's stunning.

I don't really know what my point is. I know the US was not set up as a place for there to be no government involvement the way people nowadays say they don't want government involvement. I also recognize the tax system is ridiculous. I do, however, want to pay taxes and have social services, even some things I don't want. I am only one, I am not a majority.

Thanks for the encouragement, guys. It's rather nice. I like to spout off.

Erin O'Brien said...

No one called you a racist, Joe, or an "ignorant redneck klanner" Hoosier. You still do not see the point of my reference, which was about how members of the establishment GOP pointed to Obama's ethnicity--both subtly and overtly--every chance they got in order to get the maximum exploitation of racism.

Anonymous said...

@twinkly-

Love that you mentioned Anarchy. Get up among them limited government folks and say you want the gov out of your life too and Identify yourself as an Anarchist and watch the looks on their faces. Lower the Flag? Tear down the fences? GASP!

BTW, for those of you interested in "freewill" you might enjoy reading some of the latest neuroscience literature. The nature/nurture debate rages on and currently suggests homo sapiens are only slightly more self-directed than cockroaches. (Speaking to Joe's assertion that no one knows his "mind") We are biological organisms in spacetime with the primary function of transmitting genetic material.

Have a nice day.

Randy J

Joe said...

Oh I get your point. I just do not agree.

Certainly other commenters and pundits have made the accusation ALL non-Obama supporters are racists. I think it is disgusting.

I also find the accusations Romney is a felon and a murderer beyond the pale.

Twinky -- I certainly am no anarchist. We only differ on the role of Government and the role of the individual states. Taxes are a necessary evil. The role of the Government is described in the Constitution.

I am not sure telling me what I can eat and what I can drive is the role of any elected official.

Erin O'Brien said...

Huh? What? Who called Romney a felon and a murderer? Did I miss something?

Perhaps it was the same group who accused Obama of "palling around with terrorists." No ... wait ... that was last time around.

Bill said...

A few good things about the election being over. 1) The press will start covering Benghazi. 2) The press will start covering the suffering in NY & NJ. 3) MSNBC will fire at least half of their lineup.

twinklysparkles said...

Randy J,

I am an Alexander Technique teacher. We make it our business to help students learn how to identify unconscious habits of thought and movement. Check it out. My teacher is very into neurology and I am quite aware of how the AT sheds light on the oldest human dilemma--the mind-body split. Check it out sometime. It could take you years.

We can learn to use our higher brain (pre-frontal cortex) to be more evolved than cockroaches in our thoughts and actions.

Anonymous said...

@twinkly-"Check it out sometime. It could take you years."

I'm running out of time :). Thanks for the heads up anyway.

RJ

Anonymous said...

Periodically clicking the Fox website. Front page coverage dominated by "Funny business in Philly." To wit: Black guys with dreadlocks and berets "intimidating" voters, a HS Gym polling place with a picture of the Prez. Hells bells anyone that lives in Philly that is affected by that stuff doesn't get out much.

But there's certainly no implicit racism there huh?


RJ

Bill said...

It's pretty unselfish of those Black Panthers to go out there and protect the citizens. Never know when a Navy Seal will show up and try to force someone to vote Romney.

Anonymous said...

Thanks for confirming the stereotype Bill. Lest you go about your day totally clueless let me offer you this. Those photos and headlines are not directed at the residents of those Philly preceincts, they are directed at all these guys down here in Tennessee and elsewhere to confirm what they already believe-"The niggers are stealing the election."

Have a nice day.

RJ

Anonymous said...

@Bill-I would also suggest you read a book. Or maybe even watch a movie like "The assasination of Fred Hampton" available on You Tube. If you're going to invoke the Black Panther label you should at least learn what it means.

Randy Johnson

RIP Chairman Fred.

Anonymous said...

Hey Twinky --

The biggest difference is Monsanto cannot tax you, fine you, or put in jail if you do not buy their products.

EOB - Stephanie Cutter called Romney a felon during the arguments about his tax returns. harry Reid flat called him a tax cheat and said Romney did not file taxes. that is a felony.

The disgraceful ad implied Romney caused that Iowa steel worker's wife to die.

Funny, I just am a straight forward guy who clearly does not get the "code words". I am not sure why when Democrats in Congress questioned McCain's citizenship and eligibility for office (he was born in Panama) it was just business. When others question the President's citizenship it was pure racism.

Sometimes. Dr. Freud, a cigar really is just a cigar.

But most importantly, this will hopefully be over for a year or so this time tomorrow.

Joe

Anonymous said...

"I am not sure why when Democrats in Congress questioned McCain's citizenship and eligibility for office (he was born in Panama) it was just business. When others question the President's citizenship it was pure racism."-Joe

Perhaps I am naive Joe. Would you kindly provide me with references to the history of oppression of white men in America. I, too, want to be "ordinary."

Randy Johnson

Erin O'Brien said...

Actually Joe, the difference is that if Obama had been a military brat born in Panama, the right would have united behind the idea that such a thing disqualified him from being president and it would have gotten even more traction that the racist "birther" crap that still so many adhere to.

The lefties you cite (and I had never heard of until now--not so much as one headline), apparently couldn't get any steam from the rest of the party (rightly so) on account of being idiots.

Erin O'Brien said...

And believe me, there are plenty of idiotic lefties. Dig this one.

Jon Moore said...

RJ
Hit up Wiki for "Indentured Servant".
Just sayin'.

Erin O'Brien said...

Dad always used to say, "A wedding is a small price to pay for an indentured servant (read: son-in-law)."

Anonymous said...

@Joe-
In addition (I have some sort of commenting stutter)were it not a gross violation of Federal Law I'd love for you to talk to some of my Vietnam Vets with diabetes, parkinsons and chronic dermatitis(just to name a few)of the consequences of Agent Orange exposure. I suspect they'd consider those some sort of "tax."

"AGENT ORANGE"-Defoliant

A 50:50 mixture of 2,4,5-T and 2,4-D, it was manufactured for the U.S. Department of Defense primarily by Monsanto Corporation and Dow Chemical.

Randy Johnson

Anonymous said...

@Jon-

As soon as I typed that I thought I should have said "Not to include wage slavery." Point taken. I suppose in my defense I could argue that that injustice is more equally applied than something like, I don't know, hanging.

RJ

Bill said...

@RJ. Just reading a headline and making a comment. Glad it got you googling though. You're a real champion of all the "victim groups". I hope they appreciate your sentiments. Are you a poll watcher?

Anonymous said...

@Bill-
I doubt many of those folks care what I champion but I do what I can.
I suppose I could be described as a poll watcher. It will be interesting to see the final numbers given the amount of dispute in that arena this election (unskew the vote, as an example). I am inclined to believe Nate Silver. But like him I understand the difference between probability and certainty. Plenty instances playing Texas hold 'em when I got in the pot ahead but lost a 2:1 advantage. We'll see. I actually think it will help everyone if the "Quants" are correct. Might end alot of needless speculation.

RJ

Jon Moore said...

RJ
I get your point, but for the sake of argument, Wiki (because it's easy) Bonus Army and Battle of Athens for starters.

Anonymous said...

Wow! It took me forever to vote! there were binders and binders full of women in line ahead of me!

MR

Anonymous said...

@ Joe @2:25, 11/5/12

I'm right with you on everything except wearing a helmet. Anybody reckless enough to ride without a helmet probably doesn't give a shit if they hurt somebody else with a big, heavy machine.

MR

Anonymous said...

The "New Black Panthers" (so-called) presence in this election amounts to one guy at one precinct in one city in one state in this country of 330 million.

To make it easier on Fox, the individual in question seems to have chosen the exact same place he showed up to last time. I think that is very considerate of him.

I've said it before and here we go, one more time: the "New Black Panther" party (so-called)amounts to like eight individuals with matching caps, t-shirts, and a web site. They've got a bigger chance of being mistaken fot the hot new boy band than they do of disturbing an election.

MR

Anonymous said...

@ Jon, @3:44-

"Indentured servitude" was a contractual obligation entered into by both parties.

MR

Jon Moore said...

MR
Not necessarily.
Children were often packed off to the New World by parents who could not afford to keep them. Apprenticeships were sold to ships captains who in turn sold them in the colonies. And there were also the crimps who did not limit their trade to the British Navy.

Anonymous said...

Hijack. 6:56p. Haven't turned on TV yet. Early results available all over the Net. Frking local county results apparently will not include third party totals.
@MR. Thanks for your GOTV Work. No bound women at my polling place. Missionary position leading exit polls.

RJ

Anonymous said...

@Jon-The Bonus Army. Those were the days. As I was thinking about this issue it occured to me probably the most exploited group of white men ever were the non-slave holding soldiers of the Confederacy.

RJ

PS- I AM NOT A ROBOT!

Anonymous said...

7:39 Central. Favorite live blog post so far - "Are David Gergen's sideburns fake?"

RJ

Erin O'Brien said...

I tweeted, "David Gergen looks like the Cowardly Lion."

Anonymous said...

8:35 Alan Grayson back to Congress. Go Liz Go.

Nate Silver blogs, following PA and Wisc. calls for BHO. "On the wall, the writing."

RJ

Anonymous said...

8:48

ELIZABETH WARREN 2016!

One and done for Willard- Va, FL, OHIO!

RJ

Anonymous said...

9:20

Old White Evangelicals getting asses kicked. "God Intended" HAHAHAHAHA

RJ

Anonymous said...

9:29
JUSTIN WOLFERS
Turns out that being anti-rape is a pretty popular policy position.

SETH MASKET
Election so far is not really a mandate for rape.

RJ

Anonymous said...

9:59

Matt Yglesias ‏@mattyglesias
Citizens United seems to have been a devious plot to transfer money from conservative billionaires to conservative political operatives.

RJ

Anonymous said...

10:18

O-HI-O!

4 More Years. Good lib pick ups.

Next election I'll get my own blog.

Night all.

RJ

Bill said...

Congrats to all you libs. God help the rest of us.

Anonymous said...

@Bill-There is but one God, and I believe that He is watching over all of us.

11:42-Karl Rove is lecturing the Fox News on-air "talent" over Fox calling Ohio, and thus the election, for the President. This is one of thge strangest fucking thing I've ever seen in my fucking life. Rove keeps using the phrase "votes still to be cast" as if the polls haven't been closed for over 4 hours. Does he know something that not a single person anywhere else in broadcast news? Does he have a sleazy crooked ace up his sleeve? Bizaare. He is being followed by the commenter who in life was known as Charles Krauthammer who is already making the point that Republicans shouldn't and won't, cooperate with the Democrats.

MR

Anonymous said...

Romney went out with class. No, I won't snark.

MR

Erin O'Brien said...

Agreed, MR and good call.

But it's open effing season on Ted Nugent, Clint Eastwood, Donald Trump, Karl Rove and every miserable stinking filthy rich fat cat that tried to buy this election and failed.

I just love to think of board rooms brimming with suited business men scratching their heads over the not-so-great rate of return on their election contributions.

Got Citizens United?

Erin O'Brien said...

This just in ... Biggest loser of the night: Erin OBrien, for eating the better part of a bag of cheddar Chex Mix while watching election coverage.

Anonymous said...

@MR-One more time. Thanks for the GOTV!

Old Caucasion Males may now begin the process of self-deportation. In the alternative you think a 58 year old could pull off dreadlocks and a bong in Boulder?

ELIZABETH WARREN 2016. A Woman's place is in The White House!

RJ

Erin O'Brien said...

An important message from Bridget Callahan.

Erin O'Brien said...

You know, Fox News, when you hire a massively partisan "political analyst," don't be surprised when he completely comes apart during live election coverage as the vast majority of promises he made to thousands of high dollar donors go right down the crapper:

Oh ... and POOR CHRIS WALLACE!

Bill said...

Bridget is awesome. A right wing guy could be married to her and still be happy. (she might not agree)

Joe said...

Hello RJ,

I am sincerely not being a smart ass when I write I do not understand your Monsanto/Agent Orange point. It was, after all, the Government who sprayed the chemical and the Government who refused for years to acknowledge the issues with those exposed.

EOB, I hope you do not mind a sidebar discussion because I find it an interesting insight for how each of us views things from a different political prism.

Bill said...

I'm watching MSNBC gloating. There's something funny/weird about white men trashing white men and women cheering for more abortions. Have to admit, Fox is pretty pitiful this morning. BTW, there is some serious suffering still happening in NY and NJ.

Erin O'Brien said...

Joe, all links/comments/discussions are welcome here.

Anonymous said...

@Joe-

Didn't seem smartass to me. Also our hostess has been so generous with sidebars I know I sometime take liberties. But I digress...

I guess the best way to respond and not go off down a long Vietnam recollection would just be to say if one couches a perspective in the notion of a Military/Industrial model then the corporations share some of the responsibility for the consequences of their products. The "tax" analogy may not be precise but I think it makes a point. I think twinkly was making the point that some of these huge corporations like Monsanto can game the markets to their advantage, one of my complaints when I hear passionate defenses of "Free Markets." The Markets incentivize manipulation- "Profit"

RJ

Joe said...

Thanks.

We can agree to disagree, since really it is a question of degree. An unfettered marketplace (ie meat packing conditions) is not acceptable, and how much the government should control is the real issue. I favor less interference into the free market, you favor more.

Anonymous said...

@Erin-it just occurred to me that we have not seen, heard from, or even heard the name "Reince Preibus" for what seems like weeks.

It is my conjecture that he is in Monaco or gstaad getting a new face and prints to evade the hitmen hired by the Kock* Brothers and Sheldon Adelson.

I also assert without being prepared to show evidence at this time that Dick Morris and Ed Gillespie have been frantically calling him to get the location of the place he got altered at.

Michael Steele presided over an historic mid-term triumph in 2010 and the GOP couldn't wait to kick his blasck ass to the curb. Nemaste, bitches.

MR

Anonymous said...

*=Not a typo. "Kock" is accurate.

MR

Anonymous said...

@Joe-In Re: Free Markets.

Actually it would be helpful if the gov't just enforced the laws on the books. Those huge corps can afford to tie stuff up in court and even with exorbitant. legal fees the spread or edge they acquire is worth it. Just look at Apple and Samsung. Paying patent infringement fines of a billion dollars is just all in a days work. How does the much exalted "Small Business" compete with that? Or as used to be the case with Microsoft they'd just go out and but the silicon va;lley start ups that threatened their market share. Why isn't Wall Street in jail. They knew the instruments they were selling in the derivatives market (dark btw-unregulated) were worthless but they did it anyway. That's why I advocate for consumers and workers to become checks on the corps. The Gov has shown an inability/unwillingness to do the job.

RJ

Anonymous said...

It seems it would be a bit of an oversight not to say bye to our old friend Joe "The Plumber"

Ohio 9th District

Marcy Kaptur 73% 206,763 ✓

Samuel Wurzelbacher
23% 66,844

RJ

Erin O'Brien said...

RJ, I tweeted that as soon as I saw it last night, the WANKER.

Anonymous said...

Ya know as I continue to process Obama's reelection and Presidency-and I've been honest that I'm no huge fan of his policies-there is one thing about him that can't be denied. THE SUMBITCH CAN TAKE A PUNCH! I know commentators say we tend to exagerate things and mud slinging is nothing new in American politics but is there any aspect of that man's life or character that hasn't been vilified? I mean when the ledger is totaled has there ever been more time, money and outright lies thrown at a political candidate?
Just reflecting...

RJ

Erin O'Brien said...

Randy, I went back to that again and again: Obama is one tough summbitch, not to mention unflappable.

Sort of like Hillary, but the righties won't have to really worry about her until ... oh, nevermind.

; )

Bill said...

A futile comment here but, Tough? The press ran interference for him on every issue. No one could lay a glove on him. That'll probably change as early as tomorrow. Hope so. We might get to see if he's tough.

Anonymous said...

RHINEtz PREE-bus.




Gump

Anonymous said...

The media ate my homework? Best you got, Bill?

MR