tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18122582.post8573017899923183871..comments2024-02-15T02:46:48.670-05:00Comments on Erin O'Brien: Cannabalism in AmericaErin O'Brienhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09089592061725346901noreply@blogger.comBlogger109125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18122582.post-79347809197248696292011-03-05T12:46:50.832-05:002011-03-05T12:46:50.832-05:00Erin, the time I spent at Chrysler was mid-90'...Erin, the time I spent at Chrysler was mid-90's. I did not realize at that time I was watching the end of traditional American manufacturing as I traveled from steel plants to foundries to assembly plants as an automation tech. <br />I also didn't point out that a very strong Black middle class arose near that plant from the jobs and good wages. Since 2000, 44,000 manufacturing plants have been shuttered in the US. <br />Increases in productivity from automation and employee sophistication should translate into higher quality, and lower costs, i.e., competiveness in the global markets ensuring job and wealth creation. Hasn't happened. Just a short-sighted battle for the 19th century-modeled piece of a pie. <br /><br />I am not fundamentally opposed to unions. I think they are most effective when the work is by necessity physically demanding and/or dangerous,e.g., cops and firefighters, or the workforce is fungible, meaning anyone with basic skills and a back can do the work. This latter group are historically the most at risk for exploitation.<br /><br />At the point when a discrete labor pool becomes sophisticated via technology and contractual participation in standards organizatins,like ISO, and the members are squarely in the middle class, employee stock ownership and prfessional societies make more sense to me.<br /><br />In my view, the potential greed of the corporate owners are often just replaced by corrupt union leadership, which historically has also been frequently infused with organized crime.<br /><br />Killing the goose that lays the golden egg, donchyaknow.philbillynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18122582.post-45002176681030258192011-03-03T20:23:08.843-05:002011-03-03T20:23:08.843-05:00Amen, sister.Amen, sister.Kirkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02155991693956178030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18122582.post-41607236416995210982011-03-03T18:24:58.354-05:002011-03-03T18:24:58.354-05:00Philbilly:
"The new way is employee owned bi...Philbilly:<br /><br />"The new way is employee owned bidness, believe it."<br /><br />We have a winner. However PB I don't think having the means of production owned by the workers is a particularly new idea. <br /><br />RJAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18122582.post-54980354474394522432011-03-03T12:24:39.003-05:002011-03-03T12:24:39.003-05:00Are you saying that Faux News is spinning its poll...Are you saying that Faux News is spinning its poll? A right wing media outlet spinning a poll against the right wing! HUH?????<br /><br />The arguments have run out, obviously! I AM DONE!VideoDudenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18122582.post-1132840800330925912011-03-03T12:12:14.240-05:002011-03-03T12:12:14.240-05:00Yes. Polls do show opinion but polls show the spi...Yes. Polls do show opinion but polls show the spin of the pollster too! Elections show the will of the people.Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17626884939818771077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18122582.post-18922125712403853762011-03-03T12:00:11.359-05:002011-03-03T12:00:11.359-05:00Polls show the will of the people. So you would r...Polls show the will of the people. So you would rather politicians not listen to the people. Just the Koch brothers!<br /><br />If the politicians did what was right without regard for the next election. They would raise taxes, right now, increase spending, and get this economy going. End the tax incentives for Corporations to send jobs overseas. End Tax subsidies to the Oil Companies.VideoDudenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18122582.post-14002353260734055932011-03-03T11:50:06.214-05:002011-03-03T11:50:06.214-05:00Dude: It's NOT the fault of union workers. I...Dude: It's NOT the fault of union workers. It's the fault of the whimp ass politicians willing to sell their souls to get elected. Politicians lie? That's not exactly a news flash. Regarding the poll: I would love to see a politician do what's right, without regard to some poll, without regard for the next election. One can hope.Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17626884939818771077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18122582.post-26068507491087719982011-03-03T11:37:49.300-05:002011-03-03T11:37:49.300-05:00Faux News Poll: 48% Of WI likely voters support G...Faux News Poll: 48% Of WI likely voters support Gov. Walker! That's a minority! Even Faux News can't hide the truth!VideoDudenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18122582.post-11192716506841572672011-03-03T11:34:18.029-05:002011-03-03T11:34:18.029-05:00You mean like workers rights!
So the fact they ...You mean like workers rights! <br /><br />So the fact they lied to get elected means nothing to you?<br /><br />I don't understand, when corporations, Republican Tax Incentives, and Wall Street Bankers caused this messs, But it is all the fault of the public workers, you know, police, fireman, teachers, nurses, etc.<br /><br />By the way, when did firefighters and police stop being heroes and becamre villains. Anyone here remember 9/11.<br /><br />It is an out and out lie that public sector employees make more than private sector. That is total and utter BS! (Unless you include the salaries of the over paid elected officials)<br /><br />The republican answer to preparing us for the future: cut education!VideoDudenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18122582.post-4531222541186591242011-03-03T11:13:35.232-05:002011-03-03T11:13:35.232-05:00Well. I guess there will be some other consequence...Well. I guess there will be some other consequences. Do you think the "teapublicans" will be voted out next time? If so, will the libs bring back all the things that the "teapulicans" had the balls to get rid of?Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17626884939818771077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18122582.post-71768644302084816082011-03-03T11:07:38.803-05:002011-03-03T11:07:38.803-05:00First of all, the election, according to the Teapu...First of all, the election, according to the Teapublicans Nov. 2, was about jobs. NOT UNION BUSTING!!!!VideoDudenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18122582.post-55611769285213523602011-03-03T07:59:50.244-05:002011-03-03T07:59:50.244-05:00If that's too vague, google the election resul...If that's too vague, google the election results.Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17626884939818771077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18122582.post-59754731622299129482011-03-03T07:57:45.573-05:002011-03-03T07:57:45.573-05:00Here's another vague and meaningless generalit...Here's another vague and meaningless generality: Ohio voters hired the GOP to try to stop the liberal insanity and the decay. Go America!Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17626884939818771077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18122582.post-37177612703790675942011-03-03T07:15:33.417-05:002011-03-03T07:15:33.417-05:00Meanwhile, back in Ohio, the GOP smashes cops, fir...Meanwhile, back in Ohio, <a href="http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2011/03/ohio_senate_republicans_pass_c.html" rel="nofollow">the GOP smashes cops, firefighters and teachers alike,</a> drastically reducing collective bargaining rights for all of them. <br /><br />Much harsher than the WI legislation, the Ohio bill will also effect 350,000 workers vs 175,000 in WI.<br /><br />Go America!Erin O'Brienhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09089592061725346901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18122582.post-64039084478799821142011-03-03T03:58:40.189-05:002011-03-03T03:58:40.189-05:00You can't argue with Phil because he nails eve...You can't argue with Phil because he nails everything in detail instead of gassing on with vague and meaningless generalities.<br /><br />That Chrysler facility closed last year, no? Bet those drunk six ay-emers are either dead or close to it.<br /><br />Remember Danny Green?<br /><br />My point is that I've been in CLE my whole life and Phil, you're points are well taken. I remember that shit. It was bad shit and it's one of the reasons that plant is closed (and free-market ideology reigned). <br /><br />There's plenty of problems with the Union model, but the ones you cite were hella more prevalent "some years ago" (one detail you didn't nail--why?).<br /><br />Drug tests. Lay-offs. Liabilities. Shrinking budgets. There's a whole world between the 70's style Rust Belt Union thug and a Wisconsin second grade teacher.<br /><br />Now then, make no mistake--when it's time to pick kickball teams, I call Phil.<br /><br />Al, your links mostly show labor organizations giving to leftie candidates. That money comes from a collective source--including the pocket of my second grade teacher's.Erin O'Brienhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09089592061725346901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18122582.post-77335058031529350412011-03-02T21:57:28.821-05:002011-03-02T21:57:28.821-05:00Al: I'm still pounding. A little vicadin wor...Al: I'm still pounding. A little vicadin works wonders.<br /><br />Philbilly: Trying to find something to argue, with you, about. No luck. Right on!Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17626884939818771077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18122582.post-50206133093716452262011-03-02T21:47:56.615-05:002011-03-02T21:47:56.615-05:00Erin,
"Them’s all purty links, Al, particula...Erin,<br /><br />"Them’s all purty links, Al, particularly the last one, but they don’t really prove anything about the political leanings of the uber rich population. Don’t feel bad, I looked and couldn’t find any either, but I still believe that Super Rich are mostly ideological righties. Maybe I’m wrong."<br /><br />They don't? That places like Connecticut and New York (two of our most rich states by income) elect Democrats consistently isn't proof? <br /><br />You are, of course, free to believe whatever you wish (BTW, I'm not suggesting you "need" to, or "have" to). We are still a free country. But I thought the links I provided at least cast some doubt on your assertion that 99.9% of the super rich are Republicans. Apparently, I was wrong.<br /><br />The great thing about beating one's head against the wall is that it feels so good when one stops. I'm at that point now, and this is my last post in this thread.<br /><br />Al<br />TRAGAl The Retired Army Guynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18122582.post-3458082177275398072011-03-02T21:46:15.422-05:002011-03-02T21:46:15.422-05:00Soon enough this reality and the costs of energy a...Soon enough this reality and the costs of energy and water will be all that really matters:<br /><br /><a href="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703313304576132170181013248.html?mod=googlenews_wsj" rel="nofollow">$</a><br /><br />I am refurbishing and upgrading all my machines in anticipation of the "Buy American" boom that is coming. Also may have found an abandoned site with a rail siding for making algae under license. <br /><br />When I helped rebuild a giant machine at Chrysler's Twinsburg Stamping Facility some years ago, one that had finally burned wildly due to decades of deferred maintenance, the union boys tried continually to sabotage us, really crazy shit. Some were also drunk at 6am.<br /><br />But as independent free thinkers, angry lads who were paid only for our successes, driving our battered Toyota trucks, we outwitted them every time and brought the machine back on line. While the dinosaur leviathans, union and management, fought each other to the death, their factories and cars turned into shit. F'em both, and adios, suckas.<br /><br />The new way is employee owned bidness, believe it.philbillynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18122582.post-38386983910059010242011-03-02T21:12:02.508-05:002011-03-02T21:12:02.508-05:00lol. quite true!lol. quite true!Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17626884939818771077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18122582.post-35506466128649329552011-03-02T20:43:20.181-05:002011-03-02T20:43:20.181-05:00It would be disrespectful to give you a break Bill...It would be disrespectful to give you a break Bill. Only liberals need a helping hand.<br /><br />RJAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18122582.post-34481558776590730852011-03-02T20:29:44.819-05:002011-03-02T20:29:44.819-05:00Alph: Then read it in the NYT (from my link above)...Alph: Then read it in the NYT (from my link above):<br /><br /><i>Americans oppose weakening the bargaining rights of public employee unions by a margin of nearly two to one: 60 percent to 33 percent. While a slim majority of Republicans favored taking away some bargaining rights, they were outnumbered by large majorities of Democrats and independents who said they opposed weakening them.<br /><br />Those surveyed said they opposed, 56 percent to 37 percent, cutting the pay or benefits of public employees to reduce deficits, breaking down along similar party lines. A majority of respondents who have no union members living in their households opposed both cuts in pay or benefits and taking away the collective bargaining rights of public employees. </i>Erin O'Brienhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09089592061725346901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18122582.post-39700822001148859902011-03-02T20:25:25.364-05:002011-03-02T20:25:25.364-05:00RJ: I feel like I'm arguing with the professo...RJ: I feel like I'm arguing with the professor. Cut me a break!Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17626884939818771077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18122582.post-14210123205364435692011-03-02T20:23:07.872-05:002011-03-02T20:23:07.872-05:00"Poll shows support for organized labor CBS N..."Poll shows support for organized labor CBS News."<br />Thank you Erin for providing a non-slanted and unbiased poll from the ever so fair and even handed CBS news.<br />RJ,<br />Why would the entire workforce of the US stage a strike? And to what end? <br />Yours sir was an emotional statement and I have come to expect better from you.Jon Moorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13855059447394883208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18122582.post-80770179893367119102011-03-02T20:18:46.658-05:002011-03-02T20:18:46.658-05:00FULL DISCLOSURE MOMENT.
I looked up "anathe...FULL DISCLOSURE MOMENT. <br /><br />I looked up "anathema."Erin O'Brienhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09089592061725346901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18122582.post-72627458037671322112011-03-02T20:09:49.103-05:002011-03-02T20:09:49.103-05:00If-Hypothetical. Nonresponsive sir.
RJIf-Hypothetical. Nonresponsive sir.<br /><br />RJAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com