tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18122582.post7790971701048044415..comments2024-02-15T02:46:48.670-05:00Comments on Erin O'Brien: Twilight: a different perspectiveErin O'Brienhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09089592061725346901noreply@blogger.comBlogger36125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18122582.post-92072949375161107902009-11-25T13:42:07.533-05:002009-11-25T13:42:07.533-05:00Joannah, I read Catcher in High School--literally,...Joannah, I read Catcher in High School--literally, it was assigned, believe it or not, this was back in the 70s--and then again as an adult about ten years ago. I liked the book as a teen simply because I thrilled at seeing swear words in print. And these were teacher-assigned swear words to boot! But, as much as I may have enjoyed it, I really didn't "get" it. I remember the teacher having us explain the book's title, and I literally described Holden Caulfield's dream. The teacher then patiently explained to me that the dream was a metaphor, that Holden wanted to save children from disillusionment. That went right over my head. As far as I was concerned, it was just a weird dream. Plus, as much as I enjoyed Holden's four-letter word vocabularly, I didn't identify with his problems too much. Like most teenage boys, I was obsessed with sex and popularity, or the lack thereof. Holden seemed indifferent to both.<br /><br />As I said, I read the book again as a grown-up, and I have to say I'm much more like Holden Caulfield as an adult than I ever was as a kid. Holden frets that phonies rule the world, and so do I. Holden feels disillusionment is the inevitable outcome of all our striving, well, as much as I hope Holden's wrong, I fear he's right. I still obsess over sex. I'll never outgrow that. Status? Only when the phonies who rule the planet put me in a corner where I have to obsess over it. So I guess in my 40s I'm a combination of my teenage self and the teenage Holden.<br /><br />By the way, I don't really believe that book was meant for teenagers any more than Animal Farm was meant for livestock. Teenagers read and apparently identify with it, obviously, and some have become so obsessed that they badgered poor old J.D. Salinger to becoming a hermit. But teen fiction back in the 50s was basically the Hardy Boys. That book was written for adults.Kirkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02155991693956178030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18122582.post-30114946103680507612009-11-24T20:38:40.136-05:002009-11-24T20:38:40.136-05:00Kirk Jusko-
I was wondering if you had read Catche...Kirk Jusko-<br />I was wondering if you had read Catcher in the Rye when you were a teenager...? I always thought that was maybe the book written only for teens, that you wouldnt get it when you got older.Joannahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00395460416071945577noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18122582.post-40337386393958476342009-11-24T15:24:37.896-05:002009-11-24T15:24:37.896-05:00glass,
your queen example doesn't fit. Queen ...glass,<br />your queen example doesn't fit. Queen is/was a great band, Freddie Mercury, imo, has if not the best, then one of the best, most unique voices in rock history (Plant and Geddy Lee figure in there, as well), so that parallel sorta doesn't work. the Vanilla Ice one does, though; something tells me not too many listeners of that track moved on to the Bowie/Queen version; just a hunch.<br /><br />i hear what you're saying; i'm not a snob; i'm just pissed that crap like that gets published, and that we sort of excuse it. if we held the publishing world to higher standards (and voiced our dislikes with our pocketbooks) they might pump out better stuff.<br /><br />i'm with you on the Anne Rice tip. go for that, instead of this crap. <br /><br />i'm not an elitist; i want to see better quality product, and i want to raise my kid on that. i don't want to use the shit as a conduit to other, perhaps more worthy stuff. why not go for it from the beginning?(S)winehttp://swine.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18122582.post-71060211110104333722009-11-23T17:44:10.859-05:002009-11-23T17:44:10.859-05:00I have not read the series. When I was the age tha...I have not read the series. When I was the age that these books are tergeting, I was cutting my teeth on Anne Rice, so these books don't really appeal to me.<br /><br />However, I can't turn up my nose at them either. The older I get the more I find myself irritated and turned off by people who take themselves too seriously. It is possible to turn young minds on to great literature using not-so-great literature. It is possible to be intelligent and well read, and still enjoy silly romance novels. It's entertainment. And I think too many people take their entertainment much too seriously. If it isn't a classic, or intellectually stimulating, it's crap. <br /><br />There's something to be said for having fun for the sole purpose of having fun. I think these books fall into that category. <br /><br />Think about it. How many kids who listened to that awful Vanilla Ice song discovered Queen in the process? How many kids who listened to Bohemian Rhapsody discovered classical music? It does work like that, if you stop turning up your nose at the fluff.Glass Houseshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17945451135515350609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18122582.post-52906868556673871652009-11-23T00:22:18.313-05:002009-11-23T00:22:18.313-05:00The review is awesome...The review is awesome...hair salon londonhttp://joshuaaltback.com/hair-salon.aspxnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18122582.post-69604862532890554722009-11-22T13:12:58.275-05:002009-11-22T13:12:58.275-05:00This is facinating for me. Thank God my daughters ...This is facinating for me. Thank God my daughters are adults and I don't have to deal w/this now! You are such a good writer Erin! I will keep up w/these trends for future grandchildren!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18122582.post-812949131549394842009-11-22T11:33:17.752-05:002009-11-22T11:33:17.752-05:00I couldn't agree more. I am a mom of two boys ...I couldn't agree more. I am a mom of two boys and i absolutely loved the series. My boys are 10 and 13 and aren't interested one bit in reading this vampire love story, but my friends with daughters are. I have often thought, if I had 10 and 13 year old girls I would not let them read anything beyond the first book. I especially don't think the 4th book is appropriate for those ages at all. Not just the sex scene with the bruises, but the child birth scene as well. Thanks for sharing your insight. On a side note- can't wait to see New Moon tomorrow. ;)roadtoabudhabihttp://www.roadtoabudhabi.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18122582.post-61631365379019875232009-11-22T08:32:46.076-05:002009-11-22T08:32:46.076-05:00Exactly right, Bekah. Talk to the kids, that's...Exactly right, Bekah. Talk to the kids, that's the simple secret.<br /><br />Thank you for dropping in Charlotte.<br /><br />Alex, amen brother. But it's scary when you're going through it. All I can say is the Eminem phase can't end quickly enough.Erin O'Brienhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09089592061725346901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18122582.post-22416441922241830472009-11-22T06:34:31.868-05:002009-11-22T06:34:31.868-05:00erin, it's the way it's gonna be. i fully...erin, it's the way it's gonna be. i fully expect that from my kiddo when she's your daughter's age; but i think that having a sort of a "base" helps. it did for me. i vividly remember my teenage years; i appreciated it all--everything i had learned and read and everything that was pop culture then (shudder!! early 80s pop culture!! shudder!). peers are the most influential when it comes to our kids; i have no delusions about that. but giving our kids a base from which to fly, also means there's a base to which they can come back. i will never censor my kid's choices (age appropriate now) in music, reading, art, film, whatever (age appropriate decisions, i'm talking, not complete lack of parenting and no structure). i went for that stuff too when i was young; i consumed it all...and most of it didn't stick. i may have dug it at that time, but within a few months, my verve for the latest fad or band or book or movie, was gone. it's amazing how time and time again i seem to gravitate back to my "base" or "anchor" in art that my parents provided (and this coming from someone who is estranged from his dad and doesn't like his mum/never has). but i give them credit for just having the stuff on the shelves. they never pushed me; i just saw them reading and writing and, as a kid, was curious and picked up stuff. i was raised on traditional fairy tales, and Jules Verne, and King Arthur type stuff, and i remember the most influential book i read as a child (and still holds now as an adult) for me was Antoine de Saint Exupery's "Little Prince." <br /><br />all the pop culture crap came and went for me, but i always seem to go back to the Little Princes and the authors that followed for me after that (Hemingway, Fitzgerald, Dos Passos, then Kafka, Camus, Sartre, Mann, Kierkegaard, then Hunter S. Thompson, Carver, Updike, Roth, etc. etc. etc.)(S)winehttp://swine.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18122582.post-51817445489742268422009-11-21T16:07:50.894-05:002009-11-21T16:07:50.894-05:00Thank you. I've been bothered by the sex scen...Thank you. I've been bothered by the sex scene at the end of "Breaking Dawn" since I first heard about it, but couldn't quite put my finger on why. And what you just wrote is why.<br /><br />I know these books are "meant" for students grades 9+, but that isn't who is reading them. There are girls 10, 11, 12 years old. Impressionable girls. I can only hope there are people out there to talk to these girls and explain what is NOT okay about Edward's behavior throughout the books, and specifically, the sex scene at the end.Charlottehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10148297814666688033noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18122582.post-17322873262480676792009-11-21T12:42:44.334-05:002009-11-21T12:42:44.334-05:00I have read and enjoyed the Twilight series. My gi...I have read and enjoyed the Twilight series. My girls are too young for it, but I think I can still identify with parents of pre-teens and older. I'm all for reading. I'm all for letting your chldren decide what they read. I am also all for the parents reading the same and having an actual conversation about the material. It's the old, "parents need to take more responsiblity" argument. A valid one. Yes, the Edward/Bella relationship has some negative aspects. There is more dangerous crap out there in books, movies, music, and the world than we can imagine. Just talk to your kids, people. Chances are, they are pretty smart.Bekahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06626966615920269238noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18122582.post-76861758782880854502009-11-21T10:47:43.261-05:002009-11-21T10:47:43.261-05:00All I can say is that my kid is consuming a lot of...All I can say is that my kid is consuming a lot of pop culture right now that I do not like AT ALL. It suprises me at every turn. You dutifully feed a kid Dr. Suess and Newberry winners, and seven years later, they're gulping down Eminem and Pink.<br /><br />I tell her when I dislike something and why, but I don't control her reading/listening. I am loathe to invoke censorship. I am loathe to tell her something she loves is "crap." That cuts through a kid's self-esteem like a knife.<br /><br />Mostly, I hope it's that phase a kid enters when peer pressure overcomes parental influence and that she'll grow out of it. But I'm very careful. The more disdain you show for a kid's cultural choices, the more they cling to them.Erin O'Brienhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09089592061725346901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18122582.post-49536344526064925272009-11-21T10:16:37.030-05:002009-11-21T10:16:37.030-05:00the problem with parodies (like Glee, for example)...the problem with parodies (like Glee, for example) is that people don't realize they are that. <br /><br />Twilight, for me, is the exact equivalent of MTV cribs; garba-jee my friend. and, as a parent, i don't go for that "whatever gets them reading" bullshit. as my parents did to me when i was a boy, i am instilling the love of story, character, improvisation, and books to my 5 yr. old. so, later, I won't have to be grateful that 'at least she's reading crap.' <br /><br />high horse? maybe. but when it comes to my kids, i want to nurture love of art from the beginning, so they don't need to be coaxed by crappy, pop cultural bullshit. <br /><br />this is who i am, so i don't make any excuses and i take it all as it comes to me. i say, why lower the bar, why set the standard low? give us high quality stuff from the beginning.<br /><br />ah, no one's watching or reading yes? yes. which brings me back to my original point: Americans are intellectually lazy. We want to be fed bullshit. it's nice and easy on the brain. it doesn't have to work. <br /><br />word up babies.(S)winehttp://swine.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18122582.post-62551386145241562922009-11-21T08:07:57.834-05:002009-11-21T08:07:57.834-05:00Hi Simon, Ms. Amanda, Lauren, Bill, Priquifo, Me (...Hi Simon, Ms. Amanda, Lauren, Bill, Priquifo, Me (ha!), and Earl.<br /><br />A few general comments, Edward is surely a fantasy boyfriend, but that's part of the fairy tale. Whether or not the positive aspects of the series outweigh the subtle negative implications, I have no idea. <br /><br />In order to use the "Twilight" experience as a springboard to more literary avenues, I urge the kids to watch the 1968 version of "Romeo and Juliet" by Zeffirelli, which is heavily referenced in "New Moon."<br /><br />I've never watched "Glee," but I dig my share of junky culture. I don't judge what entertains others. I don't judge anyone who loves or hates "Twilight," I'm only offering my own opinion.Erin O'Brienhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09089592061725346901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18122582.post-61668201126917388942009-11-21T00:39:39.181-05:002009-11-21T00:39:39.181-05:00First, great post Erin. There is definitely somet...First, great post Erin. There is definitely something to be said for responsible writing if your audience is young and impressionable.<br /><br />On to comments about comments...I think Shakespeare is overrated. I think Pablo Neruda is brilliant. I think To the Lighthouse is crap. I LOVE J.L. Borges. <br /><br />Hoitie Toitie, right? Well, how about this? South Park is among the most intelligent and socially important texts in history.<br /><br />De gustibus non est disputandum.paul bitzanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03305722333801535098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18122582.post-60734153712903825032009-11-20T22:01:14.135-05:002009-11-20T22:01:14.135-05:00I'll admit it - I read the books. And they ar...I'll admit it - I read the books. And they are kind of fun, although they'll never rank up there with the literary greats, will they? ;) <br /><br />I truly never thought about the Edward/Bella relationship from this perspective before...and what makes that especially strange is that I was in a somewhat abusive relationship in my late teens/early twenties - and his "stalker-like" M.O. was quite similar to Edward's...<br /><br />On the surface, what girl wouldn't love a boy who adored her to this degree? But wow...the message just below the surface is indeed a scary one.<br /><br />Great post!!Mehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11352940156473227821noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18122582.post-34248661630567119352009-11-20T21:20:52.420-05:002009-11-20T21:20:52.420-05:00I love reading your post. =)
Btw, that 'vampi...I love reading your post. =)<br /><br />Btw, that 'vampire in shining volvo' made me really laugh.<br />Thanks. =)PrimaCristinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09096825885949948369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18122582.post-77210283825072656502009-11-20T19:39:50.110-05:002009-11-20T19:39:50.110-05:00Nice job e! Very impressive. No wonder you get t...Nice job e! Very impressive. No wonder you get the big bucks. A fan.Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17626884939818771077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18122582.post-12607068669720396612009-11-20T19:30:19.478-05:002009-11-20T19:30:19.478-05:00I've not read the entire Twilight series, but ...I've not read the entire Twilight series, but the aspects that you mentioned are what really made me hate it. Yes, HATE it. I am not into romance in general, but I can appreciate the occasional romance like, The Time Traveler's Wife, for instance. I read Twilight (as in book one) a year or two ago when it had started to pick up in popularity. The subliminal messages are my biggest issue with these books. One thing that you didn't mention: this story is giving hormonal teenage girls everywhere the illusion that a boy exists who will hang on their every word and want to wait until marriage to have sex.. at 17. Come on, let's be realistic. I like that you are brave enough to put these things out there for everyone. When I say anything negative, I usually get berated for having an opinion that is not good about this series.Laurenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03381393248146923636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18122582.post-51417403786788735692009-11-20T19:15:20.972-05:002009-11-20T19:15:20.972-05:00My 14 year old totally got this from the very begi...My 14 year old totally got this from the very beginning. When my 12 year old read the first two all she could say was that Edward is a jerk. Many a time the word stalker entered into the conversation. I am relieved they 'get' it. So many of their friends do not. <br />A friend of mine is a therapist and uses Edwards bad behavior as an example to the teens she counsels. So many are from bad homes/situations and looking for any kind of knight, even an abusive one...Ms Amandahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15551043870400492239noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18122582.post-70466371087466953032009-11-20T18:48:33.566-05:002009-11-20T18:48:33.566-05:00As a side note, sure some of you may find the fact...As a side note, sure some of you may find the fact that a stereotypical scene about bulimia where a teacher finds a student trying to throw up in the washroom but failing due to a lack of gag reflex is followed up by a thinly veiled crack about oral sex stupid and juvenile.<br /><br />I find the mere fact that the show managed to coat this with just enough plausible deniability to sneak it onto primetime television hilarious. And the joke itself was pretty funny too. :PSimon Mnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18122582.post-72307022422075682032009-11-20T18:39:51.668-05:002009-11-20T18:39:51.668-05:00Heyo there Erin, this a 'long time reader firs...Heyo there Erin, this a 'long time reader first time poster' type of post. I've never read any of the Twilight books, adopting the standard 'why would I waste my time on that crap' approach, so I'm not completely qualified to question this, but what's your stance on the 'whatever gets them reading' argument? And if you don't accept such a generalized mantra, do you feel the Twilight series passes the positives outweigh negatives test? Of course regardless it's absolutely a great move to use the books as a jumping off point to connect with kids about literature, so I fully applaud you for that.<br /><br />I also want to make a somewhat unrelated side note on (S)wine's comments about the TV show Glee. <br /><br />I love the show. It entertains me greatly. It's ridiculous, silly, completely unrealistic, often extremely funny, and the musical numbers are quite simply a good time. <br /><br />Now, I've thought extensively on whether this is a case of so-bad-it's-good or not. I've searched the internet for interviews with the creators, I've read various reviews in search of answers. A lot of the reviewers seem to me to be missing the point when criticizing the shows painfully obvious shortcomings.<br /><br />I'm still not completely convinced either way, but I'm leaning heavily in favour of the authors knowing exactly what they're doing. The dialogue is simply too terrible, the plots way too over-obvious and ultra-blatant, and the cliches too super-concentrated and ever-present, the characters too stereotyped and most importantly the humour often too spot on and biting. A show truly this bad would at least ATTEMPT to hide these facts. This lack of taking itself seriously and complete disregard for any kind of restraint is a large part of the appeal. For me the biggest piece of evidence that the show creators know their stuff are the 'series recaps' at the start of each show. In it, one of the characters narrates the major plot points (which include an unplanned pregnancy with a father switch-a-roo and a fake pregnancy) in callous and cheerful manner in about 3 sentences. That just cannot be chalked of as accidental.<br /><br />Perhaps this makes me naive, but I feel that to a large degree the show is a parody of what it appears to be (a televized slightly more 'adulitified' High School Musical). The authors of course cannot come out and say that, lest they lose the 'Desperate Housewives' watching portion of their audience who want to get emotionally involved in the shallow storylines. The one statement they make is the ambition to make the show appeal to as 'wide audience' as possible (a fairly understandable goal on a network TV show).<br /><br />In the end, regardless of whether the how is intentionally satirical or not, that's the manner in which I interpret as I watch it, and that's why I enjoy it. A lot.Simon Mnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18122582.post-54046228570948491692009-11-20T18:16:18.449-05:002009-11-20T18:16:18.449-05:00Thanks, Al.
Kirk, this book is YA--young adult, r...Thanks, Al.<br /><br />Kirk, this book is YA--young adult, recommended for grades 9 and up.<br /><br />Martha--the kids are smart, they know this is fiction. It's that subtle innuendo that bothers me. Parents need to be the ones to talk about this. And I hope parents know what happens in the books.Erin O'Brienhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09089592061725346901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18122582.post-38492530120135473272009-11-20T18:11:18.567-05:002009-11-20T18:11:18.567-05:00I am so glad that someone is finally saying what I...I am so glad that someone is finally saying what I've been thinking since I finished the Twilight series. This is not in any way an appropriate message to send to teenagers. I just really hope that most are able to separate fact from fiction.Marthahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15360846854051155342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18122582.post-70688332324661093382009-11-20T16:54:00.582-05:002009-11-20T16:54:00.582-05:00Are these bona fide teenagers that reads these boo...Are these bona fide teenagers that reads these books, or are they pre-teens. I'm asking because when I was teenaget, there was no such thing as a book written specifically for teens. Or if there was, you wouldn't be caught dead reading it. Teens read adult books. Not literary adult books like John Updike, but popular adult books like those written by Stephan King or Sidney Sheldon. That's one way teenagers distinguished themselves from younger kids, by reading books that had a lot of sex and violence and swear words and all kinds of R-rated stuff. These Twilight books sounds awfully PG to me. Not even PG-13. Just PG. Whatever happened to teenage rebellion? Whatever happened to doing things behind your parents backs that you know would absolutely drive them up a wall if they knew about it? Adolescence has come to this? 'Tis a shame.<br /><br />Of course, I'd feel a lot differently about all this if I actually had teenage kids of my own.Kirkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02155991693956178030noreply@blogger.com